I never install ring circuits, the potential for danger is unacceptable

ZEDEZ · May 12, 2019

I’d like to know if anyone else here refuses to install ring circuits in domestic premises.

For me it’s either a 20a radial / tree circuit with 2.5mm, or a 32 radial / tree circuit with 4.0mm.

Frankly I’m tired of finding broken ring circuits on 32a CB’s, as well as mismatches on end to end tests. It drives me nuts on jobs that should be simple.

I wish we would get rid of this ridiculous practice here in the UK.

I know some of you will say there’s nothing wrong with it when it’s properly installed and tested, but inevitably at some point in the future someone will come along and disconnect a conductor unknowingly while changing outlets on the circuit.

Testing is more complicated, and diagnosing faults on a ring also.

Jjc · May 18, 2019

ZEDEZ said:
I’d like to know if anyone else here refuses to install ring circuits in domestic premises.

For me it’s either a 20a radial / tree circuit with 2.5mm, or a 32 radial / tree circuit with 4.0mm.

Frankly I’m tired of finding broken ring circuits on 32a CB’s, as well as mismatches on end to end tests. It drives me nuts on jobs that should be simple.

I wish we would get rid of this ridiculous practice here in the UK.

I know some of you will say there’s nothing wrong with it when it’s properly installed and tested, but inevitably at some point in the future someone will come along and disconnect a conductor unknowingly while changing outlets on the circuit.

Testing is more complicated, and diagnosing faults on a ring also.

Qualified sparks see no reason to dislike rfcs

Moosey · May 19, 2019

I've scoured this thread and the only real reason I've seen the OP come up with as an excuse as to not install ring circuits is that they don't like testing and certifying them/can't be bothered with fixing existing mistakes? (If you're fixing mistakes, not only are you making installations safer for your customers, in business terms it's also more money to be made... just saying)

I'm only a trainee so I'm not gonna pretend I'm any sort of expert in regards to regulations and methods of installation for power circuits - because I'm not. But I can test a ring final just fine, surely if they're a qualified professional I'm sure they do it with relative ease?

Charlie_ · May 19, 2019

Strange how this post has built up so much hype..
Don’t really see what the issue is..
Rings & radials are as valid as one another, whether they are in 2.5 or 4.0, all depends on the individual circumstances.
40 amp 4.0 ring - fine
20 amp 2.5 radial - great
All depends on each individual design

telectrix · May 19, 2019

Pete999 said:
In what way Tel, Nice, Nasty or what

meant in the nicest possible way....you old diamond.

.

Deleted member 9648 · May 19, 2019

Moosey said:
I've scoured this thread and the only real reason I've seen the OP come up with as an excuse as to not install ring circuits is that they don't like testing and certifying them/can't be bothered with fixing existing mistakes? (If you're fixing mistakes, not only are you making installations safer for your customers, in business terms it's also more money to be made... just saying)

I'm only a trainee so I'm not gonna pretend I'm any sort of expert in regards to regulations and methods of installation for power circuits - because I'm not. But I can test a ring final just fine, surely if they're a qualified professional I'm sure they do it with relative ease?

There is difficulty in testing rings on EICR's where the layout of the circuit is unknown. Very often r1/rn/r2 and R1+R2 may not be 'text book'. Then the tester is left with the ballache of breaking down the circuit to establish possible spurs off spurs or bridging, extremely time consuming, or simply noting it as an FI. Where a ring is a bog standard loop then it's simple, very often it isn't though.

bernie4253 · May 19, 2019

ipf said:
During that time, after WW11, we developed the best and safest electrical supply system in the world. Even today look at some of the rubbish in foreign countries.

I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK.

What I’m saying is don’t generalise

The Mains Man · May 19, 2019

Lucien Nunes said:
When the topic was last aired, I said I would like to see examples of thermal damage to RFC cables caused specifically by overload of one leg, due to the other going O/C. None have been offered so far...

I was called out to an emergency job a couple weeks ago where just that had happened. Ring supplying almost whole house (bad & old design) had broken possibly for a while. Socket nearest db on longer leg had a hairdryer plugged in and melted cable insulation leading to a dead short.

I'm not saying I'm ready to make rings illegal, just that it is a problem when not maintained. It would be a better solution to simply enforce testing requirements more strictly.

Deleted account · May 19, 2019

ipf said:
During that time, after WW11, we developed the best and safest electrical supply system in the world. Even today look at some of the rubbish in foreign countries.

World war eleven. I missed a few in my history lessons.

Charlie_ · May 19, 2019

The Mains Man said:
I was called out to an emergency job a couple weeks ago where just that had happened. Ring supplying almost whole house (bad & old design) had broken possibly for a while. Socket nearest db on longer leg had a hairdryer plugged in and melted cable insulation leading to a dead short.

I'm not saying I'm ready to make rings illegal, just that it is a problem when not maintained. It would be a better solution to simply enforce testing requirements more strictly.

Would that not be due to the loose connection?
Which would also happen if it was a racial circuit

Charlie_ · May 19, 2019

Don’t mention the war

[ElectriciansForums.net] I never install ring circuits, the potential for danger is unacceptable

Zerax · May 19, 2019

bernie4253 said:
I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK....

And what's your opinion on French plumbing ?

Charlie_ · May 19, 2019

Zerax said:
And what's your opinion on French plumbing ?

Sacre bleurrrghh

ipf · May 19, 2019

bernie4253 said:
I live and work in France. In my humble opinion, the current regs here are in many (not all) respects better than the UK.

What I’m saying is don’t generalise

Why not generalise …….if you're talking in general?
Not talking currently, anyway. Think about 40, 50 or even 60 years ago.
The training, in general, regarding our regulations has been on a downward curve since well before the turn of the century,......all due to financial reasons..... pocket lining rather than lack of availability.

Pete999 · May 19, 2019

DPG said:
Did someone just criticise the UK 13A plug (plug top)? It's widely recognised as the best in the world!

Crikey is this thread still current?

-Matt · May 19, 2019

I work mostly in coach building/mobile hospitality building, We very rarely use ring finals for sockets for the following reasons:

layouts are always being messed with, so easier to change not having to keep in a ring.

If a cable gets damaged in transit, we only loose a small circuit covering a couple of sockets, rather than a ring which would cover a much bigger area.

some installs are for europeans, and a ring would confuse them!

If something starts tripping while in use, and a muppet starts playing with the DB, no chance of him putting the 2 legs on a different phase!!

The only times a ring has really been used is when there will be heavy usage and only room for a small DB.

I now just prefer multiple radials for other work mainly for their simplicity.