What should I do in this situation of poor and incorrect wiring?

SeanA · May 23, 2019

A friend of mine is having some building work done by some incompetent tradespeople and the wiring in their bathroom was done by a plumber who is not a qualified electrician my friend was having problems so I agreed to have a look at it (I am not a qualified electrician I should point out).

The first thing I noticed was that the plumber had attached a shaver socket and a towel rail to the lighting circuit but not put that on the consumer unit isolator for the lighting circuit. I then found that the shaver socket was only being held in by one screw and was loose. Also the earth in the light switch on the wall outside the bathroom was not connected inside the switch.

My friend was also having problems with lights further on in the circuit and I found out that the neutral had come loose as it was attached to the circuit using a terminal block connector. I have replaced the terminal block with a junction box as I personally don't like terminal blocks especially for work intended to be permanent. The earth was also not properly connected as well.

While fitting the junction box to replace the terminal blocks I noticed that the wiring is using incorrect colours for example there is several instances of brown and red neutral wires with no sleeving, there was also a blue live wire. None of the wiring or junction boxes have been fastened to the rafters and an excessive amount of wiring has been used so its become tangled.

I have spoken to the electrician for the project who has mentioned that they put in a quote to do the bathroom electrics but the person overseeing the project declined it and choose to have it done by the plumber so the electric work in the bathroom has not been certified and signed off, my friend wasn't aware of this. The electrician has offered to certify it for a fee however given how bad it is I don't think the electrician would be able to certify it without major changes.

Given the state of the electrics and the incorrect wiring I have suggested the best cause of action is for my friend to get a new electrician in and replace it all and maybe report the plumber and the person overseeing the project to trading standards. What would you say the best course of action is?

The Ghost · May 23, 2019

SeanA said:
Regarding me installing the junction box I have photographed everything before and after several times to show what it was like.

That does not exonerate you it makes it worse as you now have evidence you interfered in others work. As soon as you work on the circuit/installation you carry liability for it. So photos will not take that away. It is a pretty serious matter if things go wrong and will not help you or your career. The point to take out of this is that never ever interfere in someone else's work unless you are taking on the responsibility for it totally.

magnoliafan89 · May 23, 2019

I'd still like to know why the OP referred to a brown and red as a neutral and not having sleeving and lives as blue...surely it should be blue as a live say as in a switch without sleeving but still unsure as why a res or brown would need sleeving and why more theyd be a neutral

MJPD29 · May 23, 2019

Sounds like your friend tried to save themselves a few quid and it backfired

SeanA · May 23, 2019

From what I understand she didn't ask for the plumber to do the electrics the person overseeing the project did and she wasn't aware that the plumber had done it and it was only by chance that she found out about what had gone on. From what I understand she wouldn't have allowed the plumber to do the electrics if she had been aware he was going to.

magnoliafan89 said:
using incorrect colours for example there is several instances of brown and red neutral wires with no sleeving, there was also a blue live wire.

Do you mean they've used to red and brown as neutrals and blue as a live....or are you assuming that those are the relevant colours?

They have used a wire with red insulation and at another point a brown wire both of which are neutral wires. There is a Live wire as well where the insulation is blue coloured.

MJPD29 · May 24, 2019

Contact whoever was overseeing the project then they are the ones who have cut corners to save a few quid

telectrix · May 24, 2019

@OP. whereabouts are you? maybe a local member could help. a professional assessment of the install is recommended.

magnoliafan89 · May 24, 2019

SeanA said:
From what I understand she didn't ask for the plumber to do the electrics the person overseeing the project did and she wasn't aware that the plumber had done it and it was only by chance that she found out about what had gone on. From what I understand she wouldn't have allowed the plumber to do the electrics if she had been aware he was going to.

They have used a wire with red insulation and at another point a brown wire both of which are neutral wires. There is a Live wire as well where the insulation is blue coloured.

So wait...they've used the lives as neutrals and neutrals as lives??

SparkyAndGeorge · May 24, 2019

Offer your friend the advice given to you on here and don't get involved any more in it.

Rocky1964 · May 26, 2019

There's some "A" class smart A@$&S on here! How many customers are even aware of the need for testing & certification? They just want the job done. If a plumber says he can do it then most of them will not even give it a second thought! This forum is becoming more & more unpleasant every time I visit it!!!

Deleted member 9648 · May 27, 2019

Rocky1964 said:
There's some "A" class smart A@$&S on here! How many customers are even aware of the need for testing & certification? They just want the job done. If a plumber says he can do it then most of them will not even give it a second thought! This forum is becoming more & more unpleasant every time I visit it!!!

You are correct, there are some "A" class smart A@$&S on here. But as one of them I sincerely believe that defending customers for getting the plumber to do the electrics is about a stupid a post as I've ever seen on this forum, so have a dumb. Oh and thanks for the return dumb, (not there yet but anticipating one in retaliation).

DPG · May 27, 2019

Rocky, if the forum is not to your liking then feel free to not bother coming back at all. Nobody coerces you into visiting.

I'm sure you'll be missed greatly though based on you last post.

Adrian1958 · May 27, 2019

Vortigern said:
Sadly you have made matters worse in that you have worked on the installation changing to a junction box. So if you went to trading standards the persons who did the original work will say it is not their work someone else has worked on it. You may be in the frame instead of the rogue traders. As you say you are not qualified you may put yourself in the way of prosecution and your friend as he is responsible for ensuring electrical work is undertaken safely at law. So it may backfire spectacularly! First, never involve yourself in this manner and tell your friend unsafe work may leave him open to prosecution. His insurance will be void in the event of an electrical fire or someone being harmed through his cavalier approach as well as prosecution and difficulty selling the house. Sheesh!

Not the best advice saying that insurance will be void. As a retired RDS fire fighter and now as a volunteer fire support worker , i see many electrical fires , only last week a householder lost their roof due to down lighters fitted by the house owner caught fire . The insurance is paying up and relocated them whilst the roof is being replaced.

Insurance is a big world and best left to advisers and lost assessors to fight out.

[ElectriciansForums.net] What should I do in this situation of poor and incorrect wiring?

The Ghost · May 27, 2019

Adrian1958 said:
due to down lighters fitted by the house owner caught fire

You may well be right I certainly agree with what you have stated. However the case you have quoted the house owner was acting perfectly legally and entirely within building regs notification requirements. While I also agree that was an overstatement and maybe should have read, ...may have insurance implications... I will be more careful of my wording in future.
However I do have some reservations regards your statement in that it may suggest to a wider audience reading this thread that even if you do, or someone does negligent electrical work it is ok as insurance will pay out. Personally I would not take that as a given fact. I would tend to more suggest to err on the side of caution and at least consider or consult with the insurance company prior to say as a plumber, undertaking electrical work. The legal underpinnings of the regulations and statute around electrical work are somewhat complex and lack of compliance to the aforementioned can be a legal minefield.

Baddegg · May 27, 2019

Vortigern said:
You may well be right I certainly agree with what you have stated. However the case you have quoted the house owner was acting perfectly legally and entirely within building regs notification requirements. While I also agree that was an overstatement and maybe should have read, ...may have insurance implications... I will be more careful of my wording in future.
However I do have some reservations regards your statement in that it may suggest to a wider audience reading this thread that even if you do, or someone does negligent electrical work it is ok as insurance will pay out. Personally I would not take that as a given fact. I would tend to more suggest to err on the side of caution and at least consider or consult with the insurance company prior to say as a plumber, undertaking electrical work. The legal underpinnings of the regulations and statute around electrical work are somewhat complex and lack of compliance to the aforementioned can be a legal minefield.

The plumbers public liability certainly won’t cover him....

Wilko · May 27, 2019

I’d love to hear that conversation between homeowner and insurance company - “you’ve installed down lights - and you’re not qualified - and you’ve not tested them - and then they’ve caught fire and burned your roof - yes, that’s no problem at all, fully covered by your buildings policy”.