Solar Panels Does the home consume solar produced electricity that doesn't reach the meters?

I have been trying to reconcile our electric bill with the Enphase production and consumption reports. I don't believe we have any kind of battery. There seems to be much higher production/consumption numbers on the reports that my bill and meters can't account for. The installer says that my house consumes electricity from the panels that don't make it to be registered by the meters. We practice net metering here, feeding the grid at certain times and taking at others. How can electricity reach our home without passing through the meters first...and I am talking about 100's of kWh's?

At what point in the system is the "production" measured ?

I am using the reports and tools from the Enphase Enlighten program. Our electric company uses 2 meters.
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purityinjc78 said:

I am using the reports and tools from the Enphase Enlighten program. Our electric company uses 2 meters.

Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance concerning electrical set up as I am not an electrician.

Some types of installation do in fact produce from solar and only measure the excess electricity you are feeding back to the grid.

It is difficult to tell exactly what type of system you have without some pictures or diagrams.

James the Spark1976 said:

Some types of installation do in fact produce from solar and only measure the excess electricity you are feeding back to the grid.

It is difficult to tell exactly what type of system you have without some pictures or diagrams.

Click to expand...

Please see the attached pics. Does that help? Thanks


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purityinjc78 said:

I have been trying to reconcile our electric bill with the Enphase production and consumption reports. I don't believe we have any kind of battery. There seems to be much higher production/consumption numbers on the reports that my bill and meters can't account for. The installer says that my house consumes electricity from the panels that don't make it to be registered by the meters. We practice net metering here, feeding the grid at certain times and taking at others. How can electricity reach our home without passing through the meters first...and I am talking about 100's of kWh's?

Click to expand...

I am just not certain, so don’t want to give you incorrect advice.
I think a call to the solar installers might be your only option.
Sorry.

I think perhaps your system is making available a lot of power, but the grid is not taking this power in ? This is because the local grid has enough power available to it most of the time, and does not need to be topped up. ( this is when they buy power from you ). But when they don't need power they don't buy it. it just sits there wasted.

James the Spark1976 said:

I am just not certain, so don’t want to give you incorrect advice.
I think a call to the solar installers might be your only option.
Sorry.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, they are why I am asking.

I too have 2 meters in the UK. My panels generate 3800kWh per year as shown by my generation meter like yours. (I cannot see any values on your meter... except 88888. Do the numbers cycle?)
I also have an incoming mains meter like your Revenue meter, which measures around 2800kWh per year. This measures how much we draw from the mains during the night or on dull days. Our meter is Smart and could actually tell me how much of our solar energy escapes to the neighbours and therefore what we actually use.
[In the UK we are paid for all our generation and a little for each kilowatt hour we export. They guess that we export 50%. My job, as I see it, is to use as much as possible.] We have a device that acts like a dimmer switch to force escaping energy levels into the water heater.
In general we import 2000kWh mains electricity for the house and 800 for charging the EV car and probably 3000 of the solar we generate. Eg 5800kWh in total per year.
The technical/magical bit. [the outside world always takes your excess solar, it cannot choose to take your excess or not. ]
In order for your panels to supply power to your home and also the outside world, your solar inverter raises the voltage above the incoming mains voltage 120V in the USA. High voltages like water flows down hill. My inverter can raise the voltage here upto 262Volts, where as the mains here is 230V. This higher voltage means that your aircon or dishwasher will use your solar energy not the mains, so long as you are generating enough. Eg generating 3.6kwh and using 3kwh for your kettle will mean 0.6kwh could escape or be used for lights, alarms, TVs or fridge motors.
We use a meter that displays what is being generated at any time. We use this to enable us to avoid solar energy leaving the building. Our smart meters in house display also gives us similar info.

In general I would expect you to be using the mains you import and 50% of your solar generation or less if you are away from the house all day. Hope this helps you to find what you use.

bluenev said:

I too have 2 meters in the UK. My panels generate 3800kWh per year as shown by my generation meter like yours. (I cannot see any values on your meter... except 88888. Do the numbers cycle?)
I also have an incoming mains meter like your Revenue meter, which measures around 2800kWh per year. This measures how much we draw from the mains during the night or on dull days. Our meter is Smart and could actually tell me how much of our solar energy escapes to the neighbours and therefore what we actually use.
[In the UK we are paid for all our generation and a little for each kilowatt hour we export. They guess that we export 50%. My job, as I see it, is to use as much as possible.] We have a device that acts like a dimmer switch to force escaping energy levels into the water heater.
In general we import 2000kWh mains electricity for the house and 800 for charging the EV car and probably 3000 of the solar we generate. Eg 5800kWh in total per year.
The technical/magical bit. [the outside world always takes your excess solar, it cannot choose to take your excess or not. ]
In order for your panels to supply power to your home and also the outside world, your solar inverter raises the voltage above the incoming mains voltage 120V in the USA. High voltages like water flows down hill. My inverter can raise the voltage here upto 262Volts, where as the mains here is 230V. This higher voltage means that your aircon or dishwasher will use your solar energy not the mains, so long as you are generating enough. Eg generating 3.6kwh and using 3kwh for your kettle will mean 0.6kwh could escape or be used for lights, alarms, TVs or fridge motors.
We use a meter that displays what is being generated at any time. We use this to enable us to avoid solar energy leaving the building. Our smart meters in house display also gives us similar info.

In general I would expect you to be using the mains you import and 50% of your solar generation or less if you are away from the house all day. Hope this helps you to find what you use.

Click to expand...

Thank for your in depth response. Both meters are digital. Maybe the flash created the appearance of all 8's. In the end, the is supposed energy production that appears on system reports that I don't see on our energy bill that is based on the meters. I am being told the house is using energy that never passes through and is registered by the meters. It doesn't quite make sense to me, and it sounds too convenient for a company who binds itself to a power production guarantee.

I seem to recall the situation in Hawaii where it was local law to install solar panels on any new build or during any major renovations (I think)... this was the case for many years... however, eventually they then had the issue that during the peak of the day, the grid was being overloaded with power. They then introduced another law to require PV and a battery solution.

I don't know if this situation has anything to do with the OPs situation... i.e. it's a local network type issue ?

purityinjc78 said:

I have been trying to reconcile our electric bill with the Enphase production and consumption reports. I don't believe we have any kind of battery. There seems to be much higher production/consumption numbers on the reports that my bill and meters can't account for. The installer says that my house consumes electricity from the panels that don't make it to be registered by the meters. We practice net metering here, feeding the grid at certain times and taking at others. How can electricity reach our home without passing through the meters first...and I am talking about 100's of kWh's?

Click to expand...

Sorry if you have already had answers, but I believe from previous conversations that enphase (and similar products) take the reading from the roof, as the panels generating energy, therefore by time it reaches the meter, lossess have been factored in.

A typical install here in australia has the solar inverter feeding directly onto the house wiring in the switchboard which is after the meters. This means that you will pull as much power from the inverter as your current load requires and any excess will be pushed back to the network and through the supplier's meter. A typical supplier's meter here will only show you what you have imported and what you have exported. To know what your house is actually using from your solar panels usually requires a smart meter from the solar manufacturer installed in the middle which has a data cable running back to the inverter and between the inverter and the smart meter the two devices can work out where your power usage is actually coming from. i.e. Mains, Panels or batteries depending on your situation.

So in brief summary to your actual post question...yes, your house consumes solar produced electricity that does not reach the supplier's meter.

bluenev said:

I too have 2 meters in the UK. My panels generate 3800kWh per year as shown by my generation meter like yours. (I cannot see any values on your meter... except 88888. Do the numbers cycle?)
I also have an incoming mains meter like your Revenue meter, which measures around 2800kWh per year. This measures how much we draw from the mains during the night or on dull days. Our meter is Smart and could actually tell me how much of our solar energy escapes to the neighbours and therefore what we actually use.
[In the UK we are paid for all our generation and a little for each kilowatt hour we export. They guess that we export 50%. My job, as I see it, is to use as much as possible.] We have a device that acts like a dimmer switch to force escaping energy levels into the water heater.
In general we import 2000kWh mains electricity for the house and 800 for charging the EV car and probably 3000 of the solar we generate. Eg 5800kWh in total per year.
The technical/magical bit. [the outside world always takes your excess solar, it cannot choose to take your excess or not. ]
In order for your panels to supply power to your home and also the outside world, your solar inverter raises the voltage above the incoming mains voltage 120V in the USA. High voltages like water flows down hill. My inverter can raise the voltage here upto 262Volts, where as the mains here is 230V. This higher voltage means that your aircon or dishwasher will use your solar energy not the mains, so long as you are generating enough. Eg generating 3.6kwh and using 3kwh for your kettle will mean 0.6kwh could escape or be used for lights, alarms, TVs or fridge motors.
We use a meter that displays what is being generated at any time. We use this to enable us to avoid solar energy leaving the building. Our smart meters in house display also gives us similar info.

In general I would expect you to be using the mains you import and 50% of your solar generation or less if you are away from the house all day. Hope this helps you to find what you use.

Click to expand...

Hello,
sorry for asking a daft question. I have similar problem of not being credited from solar panels generated energy . I know exactly that my monthly usage is 100-120 Kwh from previous house.
I read your in depth post and following your logic I have used today during 7 hours in the daytime whooping 50% of solar 11,6 Kwh as recorded by Aurora inverter; and on top of it imported 3Kwh ; then magicaly exported between 10:51 and 21:10 whooping 9.2 Kw - difference of the export meter readings 17654.3-17645.1. Inverter shows etotal as 17458Kwh

Last Sunday I had solar system switched off and imported same 3Kwh during similar daytime routine ( I am autistic AS/combined adult ADHD).

One bed, one person , no TV , music players etc; kettle boiled once, 3 ip cctvboiled 1, toaster used 3 times, Whirpoll 6sense microwave 35 min crisp option, Tower airfryer 20 mins 200C, Tower electric pressure cooker 20 mins two washing cycles in Samsung. Constant use Kenwood fridge/freeze A ratings on most appliances; lights led/low voltage on when entering the dark area, phone charger, laptop use.

I might loosing something but this doesn't make sense or math . I attach wiring of the solar with export meter and my electric dashboard with grid meter, and meters readings for illustration.

My wild guess is that I export instantly drabs and dribs of DC converted in AC in the grid; and this is lovely confirmed by the inverter's visual display . No way , I would believe that above appliances could run smothly from dribing AC.

But for the purity of my investigation I may delicately contact the above companies' technical support hehe to clarify this highly unlikely possibility.

I use mains electricity from the grid as normal for my needs and running the solar system.

Now this is where meters/wiring blah blah blah magic starts. FiT account is registered not in my name. Therefore net metering out of consideration. In ideal world, FiT account holder should be paying me directly for whatever amount of the solar generated energy I should be keeping.
Or in case FiT account being registered in the utility company 's name they will be able to reconciliate it by crediting money into my electricity account. I can then draw excecc money back in my bank account .

PS.

I have queried about what appeared to me being abandonded solar panels when signed the tenancy agreement and was given by the council no installation paperwork/contract ' lease a roof' or similar who to contact in case of emergency or trouble from solar panels; nobody ever checked their solar system for years of them bublling out solar pounds and during week long stwitch ; utility company never asked for export meter readings and refused to explain how much I export and how much I should get out the export.

I am considering buying the Laing easiform 1959 built wee bungalow; and want to remove the solar panels system to avoid additional complication when applying for a mortage.

Insofar, I only managed to obtain the installer name from MSC certification body - Solarplicity Ltd, con and tax avoidance nailed private company that have multiple entities ; their utility one gone bust last August 2019 under one name and alegedly trading afresh under the different name. Twitter has all the details.

On the positive note, I can completely switch it off and stop paying even little to some pv solar system running electricity costs.
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BradleyP said:

A typical install here in australia has the solar inverter feeding directly onto the house wiring in the switchboard which is after the meters. This means that you will pull as much power from the inverter as your current load requires and any excess will be pushed back to the network and through the supplier's meter. A typical supplier's meter here will only show you what you have imported and what you have exported. To know what your house is actually using from your solar panels usually requires a smart meter from the solar manufacturer installed in the middle which has a data cable running back to the inverter and between the inverter and the smart meter the two devices can work out where your power usage is actually coming from. i.e. Mains, Panels or batteries depending on your situation.

So in brief summary to your actual post question...yes, your house consumes solar produced electricity that does not reach the supplier's meter.

Click to expand...

Hello there

tempting to say 'bitch' as our australian neighbour used to put on their cards posted from Australia.

Trying to word my Qs sensibly to ask if inverters used in the sunny continent have storage capacity to ensure steady AC supply during sunny hours ? Or you guys use low voltage of DC wired camping style appliances that are running directly from the inverter poured energy. Hope i explained it technically correct for a lay person thinking illogically intimes but very tangibly whenever possible. Happy to call my question hetorical if needs be.

robertay2000 said:

Hello,
sorry for asking a daft question. I have similar problem of not being credited from solar panels generated energy . I know exactly that my monthly usage is 100-120 Kwh from previous house.
I read your in depth post and following your logic I have used today during 7 hours in the daytime whooping 50% of solar 11,6 Kwh as recorded by Aurora inverter; and on top of it imported 3Kwh ; then magicaly exported between 10:51 and 21:10 whooping 9.2 Kw - difference of the export meter readings 17654.3-17645.1. Inverter shows etotal as 17458Kwh

Last Sunday I had solar system switched off and imported same 3Kwh during similar daytime routine ( I am autistic AS/combined adult ADHD).

One bed, one person , no TV , music players etc; kettle boiled once, 3 ip cctvboiled 1, toaster used 3 times, Whirpoll 6sense microwave 35 min crisp option, Tower airfryer 20 mins 200C, Tower electric pressure cooker 20 mins two washing cycles in Samsung. Constant use Kenwood fridge/freeze A ratings on most appliances; lights led/low voltage on when entering the dark area, phone charger, laptop use.

I might loosing something but this doesn't make sense or math . I attach wiring of the solar with export meter and my electric dashboard with grid meter, and meters readings for illustration.

My wild guess is that I export instantly drabs and dribs of DC converted in AC in the grid; and this is lovely confirmed by the inverter's visual display . No way , I would believe that above appliances could run smothly from dribing AC.

But for the purity of my investigation I may delicately contact the above companies' technical support hehe to clarify this highly unlikely possibility.

I use mains electricity from the grid as normal for my needs and running the solar system.

Now this is where meters/wiring blah blah blah magic starts. FiT account is registered not in my name. Therefore net metering out of consideration. In ideal world, FiT account holder should be paying me directly for whatever amount of the solar generated energy I should be keeping.
Or in case FiT account being registered in the utility company 's name they will be able to reconciliate it by crediting money into my electricity account. I can then draw excecc money back in my bank account .

PS.

I have queried about what appeared to me being abandonded solar panels when signed the tenancy agreement and was given by the council no installation paperwork/contract ' lease a roof' or similar who to contact in case of emergency or trouble from solar panels; nobody ever checked their solar system for years of them bublling out solar pounds and during week long stwitch ; utility company never asked for export meter readings and refused to explain how much I export and how much I should get out the export.

I am considering buying the Laing easiform 1959 built wee bungalow; and want to remove the solar panels system to avoid additional complication when applying for a mortage.

Insofar, I only managed to obtain the installer name from MSC certification body - Solarplicity Ltd, con and tax avoidance nailed private company that have multiple entities ; their utility one gone bust last August 2019 under one name and alegedly trading afresh under the different name. Twitter has all the details.

On the positive note, I can completely switch it off and stop paying even little to some pv solar system running electricity costs.
[automerge]1592795193[/automerge]

Hello there

tempting to say 'bitch' as our australian neighbour used to put on their cards posted from Australia.

Trying to word my Qs sensibly to ask if inverters used in the sunny continent have storage capacity to ensure steady AC supply during sunny hours ? Or you guys use low voltage of DC wired camping style appliances that are running directly from the inverter poured energy. Hope i explained it technically correct for a lay person thinking illogically intimes but very tangibly whenever possible. Happy to call my question hetorical if needs be.

Click to expand...

Hi there,

the inverter has no storage capacity at all and there is no wiring change within the house...standard AC wiring. The inverter simply does what it's name implies, it inverts the DC current from the solar panels into AC current which it then supplies into the main switchboard. The house will then use whatever current is required at that point in time and export any excess to the grid. If there is not enough current coming from the inverter then it will top up it's requirements by simultaneously pulling from the grid. This change of electron flow is seamless as far as your appliances and house are concerned.

Hope this makes sense.