Hi can someone tell me whether I need to record the trip times on x1 or x5 on this combined device,as I'm getting trip times of 44/45 ms x1 and sometimes a lot lower ie 29 ms.This device is the sole means of isolation.
Cheers
Cheers
Discuss RCD/ combined afdd breakers in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
Hi TimIf the 30ma device is for additional protection bottom line is you need both the x5 tests to be less than 40ms, record the highest of the two x5 readings. (EDIT if you only have space for one reading)
The two x0.5 tests (no trip) and two x1 tests ( < 300ms ) still need checking of course.
Hi timYou're recording the characeristics of the RCD element of the device, nothing else, so you're recording both. And if your times are <300mS on 1x and <40mS on 5x then you're all good. One thing that's changing is that the newer type A / B / F RCD's tend to have longer times than the AC types we're all used to, but perfectly acceptable.
Hi they are RCD/AFD devicesIs it;
RCBO / AFDD or
RCD / AFDD ?
What test current are you applying for the 5x test as some of the newer breakers are designed to operate at a higher trip current of 250ma and not the usual 150maHi can someone tell me whether I need to record the trip times on x1 or x5 on this combined device,as I'm getting trip times of 44/45 ms x1 and sometimes a lot lower ie 29 ms.This device is the sole means of isolation.
Cheers
30mA trip test currentWhat test current are you applying for the 5x test as some of the newer breakers are designed to operate at a higher trip current of 250ma and not the usual 150ma
,is there a reg No that determines those values please .
Hi TimI'm actually a bit confused what the actual question is and if it's been answered! ;-)
When you say it's for fault protection are you referring to the AFDD part of it, or meaning it's installed to provide ADS for an installation, e.g. a main switch or up front device on a TT system?
The time/current criteria is in Appendix 3 of 18th, page 363
Also see reg 643.8, note underneath.
However if it is for fault protection and providing ADS for an installation then chapter 41 applies.
If we can help more then feel free to tell us a bit more about how/where this thing is installed, and what you are unsure of. ;-)
Hi TimWow, sounds like someone was flush with cash! Do you have a photo?!
Anyway, posts 2 and 3 are correct, irrespective of the fact they are combined devices, maximum 300ms at 30ma (x1), maximum 40ms at 150ma (x5).
The x5 time still needs to be complied with and if you only have one box to write a result (like the latest NAPIT model form) you'd write down the biggest x5 value.
(The only extra complexity is if the earthing is TT then the x1 would need to be under 200ms)
Hope that helps.
As far as I'm aware these are MCB/RCD double pole devices with AFD protection ,these are bespoke boards made especially for the job I'm on . Hope this helps ,but thanks guys and girls I have all the info now .I am struggling to understand this.
You have a cu, (std switch on incoming) and each outgoing circuit has a combined rcd/afdd - is this correct?
If so where is the overcurrent protection for each circuit (fault and where needed overload)?
Ahh so rcbo/afdd devices NOT rcd/afdd.As far as I'm aware these are MCB/RCD double pole devices with AFD protection ,these are bespoke boards made especially for the job I'm on . Hope this helps ,but thanks guys and girls I have all the info now .
Regards
Ray
Hi TimHonestly I'm a bit baffled too, I'm aware of a Siemens MCB + AFDD product, and ordinary RCBO's, and some clever lego-like add on units to add AFD protection (see below), but I've never heard of an AFDD and RCD combo without overload protection too.
Prepared to be proved wrong, and intrigued to see a photo.
I'm concerned that I have given you the wrong answer to what might turn out to be the wrong question!
View attachment 87051
Hi TimHi Tim
I'll send you a pic of the device.
Tomorrow.
Regards
Ray
Hi it's for fault protection ,and not additional protection ,but thanks anywayIf its for additional protection only you only need to do the 5X test at either 150mA or 250 mA if the 150 don’t comply , though personally i still do all 6 test as its what I’m used to, and it seems a better way to me.
Or if every circuit has been so poorly designed that ADS cannot be achieved by coordination between the device and the EFLI, leading to the use of RCDs for fault protection.Sorry i thought you said its a TN-S Supply , it would only be fault protection if on a TT.
Hi these are double pole rcbos with combined Afd ,all I would like is the maximum mS parameters for x1 and X5 for the rcbo ,this is the sole protection ,each individual circuit is covered by one of these .Or if every circuit has been so poorly designed that ADS cannot be achieved by coordination between the device and the EFLI, leading to the use of RCDs for fault protection.
I have a feeling we're not in possession of the full and accurate facts ?
Reply to RCD/ combined afdd breakers in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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