Changing from Halogen to LED

Jim_Lad · Aug 16, 2021

Hi,

First time posting on here so apologies if I'm missing any basic information, but hopefully someone can help me as an amateur DIY-er and definitely not electrically knowledgeable. I suspect the best approach would be to get in a professional to help, which I'll likely do but interested in having an idea before getting someone in. I can do basic wiring but obviously would prefer safety / abiding the electrical law over saving money.

Info:

House built in 2004, just purchased and finding all the ~~fun~~ expensive 'projects' to do.
Trying to convert spotlight halogen to LED's but read about checking the transformer, this lead me to check behind all the lights and they seem to have varying items wired in before the bulb fitting.
As on the PDF one appears to have burning on the cable and has gone hard, not sure if this an electrical failing or it's just been resting on the hot bulb - either way I'm pretty sure this isn't safe.
Document shows what bulbs are currently in each location along with the type of transformer.
Detail of the items shown in each room can be read on the larger images bottom right.
Ignore blue and brown lines, they just inform me of the orientation based on the door / window.

Questions:

If I want to change these all to LED bulbs, do I need to remove / change the transformers? Can I just use GU5.3 LED bulbs in them all?
Should / can I purchase something like this to wire in (i.e. take out the transformer and existing bulb and wire this in? Luceco LED 5W Integrated Dimmable Fire Rated IP65 Downlight Chrome 450lm Cool White - https://www.toolstation.com/luceco-led-5w-integrated-dimmable-fire-rated-ip65-downlight/p32909
Any idea if it is likely that the burnt wire was caused by touching the bulb or something else based on the current wiring?
Any other general advice on what to do / not to do to save on the electricity bills / not start a fire / electrocute myself?!

Apologies if the information is covered elsewhere but I think I have some specific oddities!

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Jim

littlespark · Aug 17, 2021

My advice, take out all the halogens. Fire risk if not installed correctly.

also, change them all to 230v GU10 LED replaceable lamps or sealed fittings. the transformers can heat up themselves if covered with insulation, never mind the heat from the lamps.

some disagree about sealed fittings as you need to replace entire unit when fails, and not always possible to get exact match after a few years. It’s just cheaper to replace lamps when needed.
Don’t be tempted to get cheap lamps or fittings from eBay or aliexpress. Buy from reputable sources

The GU10 lamps can usually fit in the same fitting as the G5.3 12v, you just need to change the lampholder.

check the wiring.
The earth wire should be continuous through the circuit, even if it’s not used at a fitting, it still needs to be present.
Any joints to the fitting need to be inside an enclosure. Either part of the fitting itself or separate. Choc block connectors wrapped in tape does not constitute an enclosure.

telectrix · Aug 17, 2021

best solution is to remove all transformers, then wire 230V direct into either:

1. GU10 LED bulbs fitted inexisting cans, or:

2. Integrated fittings similar to those in your post.

If going for option #2, check the hole size in the ceilings, easier life if new fittings are same cut-out size. most common is 70mm.

telectrix · Aug 17, 2021

just to add. isolate circuit at CU before starting, or even turn main switch off.

littlespark · Aug 17, 2021

telectrix said:
just to add. isolate circuit at CU before starting, or even turn main switch off.

And leave the halogens a good few minutes to cool before taking them out.

Hot hot hot!

DefyG · Aug 17, 2021

Not sure its as straightforward as just changing the lampholder to GU10, as most 230v GU10 fittings I've ever used require an earth connection as Class 1, therefore converting from 12v to 230v on a Class 1 or non double insulated fitting may need an earth connection unless of course using double insulated GU10 lampholders.

FatAlan · Aug 17, 2021

As above. Rip out all the transformers. Hopefully there’ll be enough slack to cut out the crispy cable. Install 230v fire rated integral or GU10’s.

Jim_Lad · Aug 17, 2021

Thanks everyone for the quick and informative replies, also appreciate the safety advice ?.

Holes are 65mm (of course they're non-standard!) so look like they would need enlarging - thanks for the advice to check.

Regarding the actual electrics, this has answered a lot of questions but as usual raised a few more- sorry! If anyone can help further it would be appreciated.

In at least one circuit there is the brown circle object with cables coming in and out, and then a transformer (see image attached). Does anyone know what this is for and should it be removed if fitting the new lampholders? Looks like there's some kind of earth cable inside maybe?
Do I need different downlights in a room that gets damp (i.e. either or all toilet, bathroom, shower)?
Regarding the note to check the wiring, does this mean just visually or is there a device to actually check all safe?
I assume not from looking online but is double insulated the same as fire rated? I can't see many double insulated options if anyone has any examples please. I've found some but...

This doesn't look double insulated - Fire Rated Cast GU10 Downlight Chrome - https://www.toolstation.com/fire-rated-cast-gu10-downlight/p32910#full-desc
This looks like these might be what I need for all rooms including ones for the shower? I was hoping for some cheaper ones from a standard DIY store - Double Insulated Recesed Downlights | Class 2 | Lightahome.net - https://www.lightahome.net/double-insulated-recessed-downlights-39-c.asp

If doing this I'll obviously hope the cable before the transformer is long enough to get to the lamp, if not can I just extend with a short bit of wire and an encased junction box or is this a no no?
Can I legally do this work myself? (though if I have further questions after any responses to the the above it may indicate someone qualified would be the best option!)

Thanks again for the information, really appreciated!

Jim

littlespark · Aug 17, 2021

Ok... the brown thing is a joint box... older type. The top screws off, and there's 4 terminals inside.
Not really used now as there's no cable grip. (unless the box is screwed down, and the cables are clipped going into it.)

DefyG · Aug 17, 2021

The Tool Station fitting is Class 1 and the earth conductor can be seen clearly at top of the picture.

The Lightahome fittings are Class 2 (Does not require earthing), however the circuit wiring earth wire (cpc) is sleeved with green/yellow need to be connected throughout to ensure good continuity but only a test with a meter will properly confirm that.

Double insulated is NOT the same as fire rated
(Class 1 = Singularly Insulated, Class 2 = Double Insulated)
IP 65 recommended for bathroom areas.

65mm was pretty standard for non-fire rated fittings.

The new fittings will accept 2twin and earth cables and you can do the job yourself as no re-wiring involved but if you need to extend any cables a maintenance free junction box is recommended and ensure cpc's are fully sleeved at every termination.

Testing for continuity may be a different proposition though.

loz2754 · Aug 17, 2021

Changing from 12 volts to 230 volts, and possibly changing from Class II to Class I is more than just changing like for like, and so is notifiable to local building control under Part P of the building regulations, if this work is in a bathroom or shower room in England and Wales.
The easiest and cheapest way to comply with this legal requirement is use a registered electrician.

Changing from Halogen to LED

Jim_Lad

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