When to have EICR done?

oohaardvark · Sep 4, 2021

Hi, non-electrian here. Just bought a 50's house with old electrics. I expect everything will need replacing eventually, but I can't afford to have it all done at once.

I imagine it's best to start at the supply and work out from there, so I think the priority is a new consumer unit - it's got Bakelite wire fuse holders still!

Trying to engage an electrician to do this job, he says he must do an EICR first, otherwise if he puts a new CU on bad wiring it could 'blow up the whole board'.

Now I'm no sparky but that makes no sense to me. Why would you do all the tests on a system you know is non-compliant? It'd be like taking a car for MOT with flat tyres.

Re. a bad circuit killing the CU - firstly all the circuits currently work, so I can't see how it could be that bad. Secondly, the whole point of RCD+MCB or RCBO is to make the system survive and isolate such faults surely?

Also, I thought EICR was for landlords and tenants, not private owners?

Very much ready to be corrected, I know nothing.

[ElectriciansForums.net] When to have EICR done?

Mike Johnson · Sep 4, 2021

To use your analogy, you would not know if the flat tyres are caused by bad wheels or an external influence, RCD's and RCBO's are in the main to protect personnel not the installation.

By carrying out an EICR before changing the board any faults present on the system can be corrected prior to the board upgrade.

DefyG · Sep 4, 2021

Because the sparks needs to establish that he is putting a new board on a safe and compliant installation. The earthing/bonding needs to be to current regs for example so not as easy as saying starting at the supply and work out from there.
The sparks has to put his name to it so must make sure it is safe and compliant before he signs it off and notifies local authority (Part P Building Regs)

littlespark · Sep 4, 2021

EICRs are for any property, not just rentals..

It’s just it’s regulation for landlords to have them done to guarantee safety of their tenants

For the age of the installation, and the possibility of DIY bodge ups in the past, it’s highly recommended, and should be done as part of the board change.

There may be a fault which isn’t serious enough to blow a fuse… that’s if the right size fuse wire is being used…. But it may stop the rcd from staying closed.

oohaardvark · Sep 4, 2021

Mike Johnson said:
To use your analogy, you would not know if the flat tyres are caused by bad wheels or an external influence, RCD's and RCBO's are in the main to protect personnel not the installation.

By carrying out an EICR before changing the board any faults present on the system can be corrected prior to the board upgrade.

so I should be worried if they DON'T want to do an EICR?

Also, what's a reasonable cost for this work, including a quality CU with SPD and all RCBOs instead of RCDs+MCBs? It's a 3 bed terraced house in Bristol.

Mike Johnson · Sep 4, 2021

Yes.

Go for an all RCBO board, more modern that RCD+MCB's and better protection, been retired for a number of years so I am unable to advise on costs.

Petej999 · Sep 4, 2021

oohaardvark said:
Hi, non-electrian here. Just bought a 50's house with old electrics. I expect everything will need replacing eventually, but I can't afford to have it all done at once.

I imagine it's best to start at the supply and work out from there, so I think the priority is a new consumer unit - it's got Bakelite wire fuse holders still!

Trying to engage an electrician to do this job, he says he must do an EICR first, otherwise if he puts a new CU on bad wiring it could 'blow up the whole board'.

Now I'm no sparky but that makes no sense to me. Why would you do all the tests on a system you know is non-compliant? It'd be like taking a car for MOT with flat tyres.

Re. a bad circuit killing the CU - firstly all the circuits currently work, so I can't see how it could be that bad. Secondly, the whole point of RCD+MCB or RCBO is to make the system survive and isolate such faults surely?

Also, I thought EICR was for landlords and tenants, not private owners?

Very much ready to be corrected, I know nothing.

To ensure that before the CU is swapped the wiring in the house/dwelling is up to scratch and safe, no good installing an expensive CU on iffy wiring, just throwing good money away, and by the way it is a recommendation only, that an EICR is done before a CU is changed, see the "best practice guide" for swapping a CU it explains it all in there.

westward10 · Sep 4, 2021

It would be prudent that someone undertakes some testing for the reasons already mentioned in particular what is the means of earthing and that is just looking at your picture.

UNG · Sep 4, 2021

Looking at the service head that may need a visit from the DNO as it looks like it may be a fused L & N

Dartlec · Sep 4, 2021

UNG said:
Looking at the service head that may need a visit from the DNO as it looks like it may be a fused L & N

Almost certainly will have a solid link bar in the neutral even if it was once double fused, though definitely worth checking...

The fabric covered main cables from the meter are probably well overdue replacement too though.

If it is 50s electrics with no upgrades there is also every chance there there is no earth (cpc) on the lighting circuit.

Definitely go with someone who at least does the testing equivalent of an EICR, even if they don't generate the paperwork. Not someone who will just throw the cheapest Consumer Unit on the wall and hope that nothing will trip....

telectrix · Sep 4, 2021

i'd say that cabling (the circuits,not the meter cables) is well later than 50's. you need a good electrician to determine what needs to be done without fishing for an expensive rewire if not needed.

oohaardvark · Sep 5, 2021

This all seems like great advice, thankyou all.

Is this the thing to read to be an informed customer? CU best practice

If the ancient equipment belonging to DNO and supplier (Western Power and British Gas in this case I think) also need updating, should that be done before engaging an electrician to look at my equipment, or can it be done after?

UNG · Sep 5, 2021

oohaardvark said:
If the ancient equipment belonging to DNO and supplier (Western Power and British Gas in this case I think) also need updating, should that be done before engaging an electrician to look at my equipment, or can it be done after?

I would get an electrician involved and let them make the on the ground decision after some testing and investigation

Dartlec · Sep 5, 2021

oohaardvark said:
This all seems like great advice, thankyou all.

Is this the thing to read to be an informed customer? CU best practice

If the ancient equipment belonging to DNO and supplier (Western Power and British Gas in this case I think) also need updating, should that be done before engaging an electrician to look at my equipment, or can it be done after?

You could certainly contact the DNO and ask them to attend to do a safety check. There is likely to be many weeks wait for that and they may just ask for pictures and then not come out anyway if nothing is obviously wrong.

The meter and fuse head are unlikely to be something they'll change just because it's old - there are lots of those still giving good service. The cabling from the meter to the current fuse box may be an issue, but doesn't look to be particularly deteriorating from the picture.

If the electrician finds something more urgent on investigation then they can contact the DNO as well and hopefully have someone out much quicker if needed.

Any meter change may well be sensible to coordinate with a board change, so that an isolator can be installed to make things much simpler in future..

That Best Practise Guide is a very good read and should give you a good insight into the process yes.