2-way switch... my head hurts

Mjward · Sep 17, 2021

Don't know if it's because its Friday or a long week but my brains have turned to mush trying to figure this out.

In a nutshell: I have a downstairs hallway pendant with a 2-way switch. Fantastic. Well, no, both switches are on the ground floor. I want to add a switch to the top of the stairs (and at the same time add a second light fitting for stair lights). One of the switches is currently 2-gang (for hallway and landing) and that is the location I want to keep (and will make 3-gang to accommodate stair lights). The other switch is currently 3-gang (for hallway and 2 study lights) and I want to make it 2-gang for just the study lights and relocate the second hallway switch to the top of the stairs.

The problem: From what I can tell, it is the second switch, i.e. the one I want to (re)move that is the one with the feed to the hallway pendant.

I was wondering if the below would work:

1) Remove all hallway pendant wires from second switch (the one I don't want)
2) Then at that location, connect the wire that was in the COM terminal (and heading to pendant) into one of the wires that was in L1 or L2 (doesn't matter which) via a wago connector
3) At the first switch (the one that is staying) run a 3 core and earth to the new switch location. Connect the corresponding L1, L2 & COM together and then also connect the cable in 2) (i.e. going to pendant) into L2 on the first switch.

[ElectriciansForums.net] 2-way switch... my head hurts

timhoward · Sep 17, 2021

So to simplify the description a bit...
You have a hallway pendant, and two switches for it downstairs.
You want to lose one of them.
You want to add a switch upstairs.
You also want to add a 2nd light fitting to the same switching.
Correct so far?

Mjward · Sep 17, 2021

Correct, the dilemma being the power to the pendant comes from the switch I want to remove.

timhoward · Sep 17, 2021

I think you describe the same solution, but here goes:

You want to end up with new 3 core+E connecting all three terminals of First Hallway Light switch with the new switch upstairs.
In addition you need a permanent live feed connecting to L1.
You then need to use one of the current conductors between the two downstairs switches to transfer switched live from L2 at the remaining switch to the pendant.

(So the two wires currently in COM should end up in L1 with the new wire)
That is stage one.

Stage 2, the extra light.... the other consideration here is where the neutral is coming from. You could use L2 at the switch upstairs as a switched live to the new fitting, but you'll need a neutral from the same lighting circuit as the hall too from somewhere.

Does that help?

timhoward · Sep 17, 2021

So reading it again, basically what you said! I couldn't follow it until I'd arrived at the same conclusion for some reason....

Mjward · Sep 17, 2021

As long as we got to the same place I am delighted!
Re the neutrals, its an old system where you have the single & earth running from switch to switch for the live feed and the neutrals go from light fitting to light fitting. So for the new stair light circuits I have the choice but I think makes sense to tap into the downstairs neutral, that way the landing switch and things it controls are all on the same downstairs circuit.

timhoward · Sep 17, 2021

Yes, you should tap into the downstairs neutral. That way if the two circuits ever end up on different RCBO's or different halves of a dual-RCD board it's future proof.

Mjward · Sep 17, 2021

In fact whilst in the subject, would love recommendations for stair way LED lights.

Something I had fitted to the last place, small round recessed lights (around 3cm diameter), warm white, white surround would be perfect.

But, I'm struggling to find anything similar, most seem to have a stainless steel surround (guess intended for outdoors) and are quite large lights.

Electrics · Sep 17, 2021

Mjward said:
In fact whilst in the subject, would love recommendations for stair way LED lights.

Something I had fitted to the last place, small round recessed lights (around 3cm diameter), warm white, white surround would be perfect.

But, I'm struggling to find anything similar, most seem to have a stainless steel surround (guess intended for outdoors) and are quite large lights.

3cm?

White All LED 30mm Dia 1W IP44 LED Marker Lights 3000K - https://www.bltdirect.com/all-led-30mm-dia-1-watt-ip44-led-marker-light-warm-white-white-finish?cat= ?

Electrics · Sep 17, 2021

Ps i'm interested in the cable of unknown origin.

Mjward · Sep 17, 2021

CamoElectric said:
3cm?

White All LED 30mm Dia 1W IP44 LED Marker Lights 3000K - https://www.bltdirect.com/all-led-30mm-dia-1-watt-ip44-led-marker-light-warm-white-white-finish?cat= ?

That looks to be the bad boy I need! Thanks fella

Mjward · Sep 17, 2021

CamoElectric said:
Ps i'm interested in the cable of unknown origin.

Haha you and I both. I assume it was a bit of future proofing ie it's gone somewhere the previous owner/spark thought might be an eventual termination. Alas for now it's just a black and red wire connected via a chocbox?

Not sure if you've seen some of my other posts but long story short, moved into this house a few months ago and the electrics are "intriguing"! Sadly I can't even blame a DIYer as it was all certified.

Markyd · Sep 17, 2021

quinetic recievers and switches

Mjward · Sep 18, 2021

Markyd said:
quinetic recievers and switches

Corr just had a quick look at those. Smart tech and I suspect that or something similar is the future. Have the home as one giant Faraday's cage, where your phones are charged simply by being inside and lights/switches etc all get their power wirelessly.

For now I'd be happy if they invent cable clips that glide through brick?