LED Ceiling panel light switching on in standby mode (on the 4th switch on)

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

We're in the UK, 240v lighting feed.
We have replaced all the lights in our house with LED ceiling panels.

[ElectriciansForums.net] LED Ceiling panel light switching on in standby mode (on the 4th switch on)

These are pretty much the standard ligthing throughout our house with the exception of our Kitchen which has a dual controller 50-80w x2.

The issue that we're having is that two of the panels, the kitchen and one of the above, seem to go into standby mode on the 4th switch on.
They all have three light settings, Bright/Warm/Dim, these can be changed with an RF remote or by switching the light switch on and off.
They've worked fine for a few years now without any hassles, but recently the kitchen light & one of the above have developed a 4th setting (standby), so you switch them on and off to cycle through the settings and instead of switching back to Bright from Dim the led's give a slight flicker and then it goes into standby mode, you can use the remote at this point to switch them on etc, but requires an additional click of the switch to cycle back to Bright from Dim.
I've tried new controllers, tried switching over existing controllers from other lights that are not affected by this issue and new switches tna.
I thought it might have been something to do with the power input but it makes little sense 'cos the lights affected are the 1st & last on the feed, with 2 more between them working fine.

The two affected lights have different manufacturers controllers & number of led strips, one being a Single output 30-60w (5 led strips) and the other being a dual output 50-80w x2 (5 led strips per output).
I have just purchased a new dual controller to see if that makes any difference but it'll take awhile to arrive.

Has anyone else come across this issue or have any ideas what may be causing it.

westward10 · Mar 12, 2022

Aside from your issue those fittings are not earthed.

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

westward10 said:
Aside from your issue those fittings are not earthed.

Yeah, none of the lights in this house are earthed, 1950's wiring.
I don't own the house and my Landlord is unlikely to be replacing the wiring any time soon.

westward10 · Mar 12, 2022

Do you have a copy of an EICR they are required by law to have undertaken and given you a copy. Those light fittings require an earth and this is a serious issue.

DPG · Mar 12, 2022

digsie said:
Yeah, none of the lights in this house are earthed, 1950's wiring.
I don't own the house and my Landlord is unlikely to be replacing the wiring any time soon.

Does your landlord know you have fitted metal light fittings that have now made the system very dangerous?

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

Yes my landlord is aware they have been fitted, he had his own electrical engineer check the installations.
The first batch I received as shown in the pics weren't CE certified (whilst we were members of the EU), so I had to send them back and have them exchanged for ones that were, that was the only issue the electrician had with them.

Nope never had an EICR, didn't know what one was until you mentioned it.

westward10 · Mar 12, 2022

Are you saying an 'electrical engineer' has checked those fittings after you had fitted them.

brianmoooore · Mar 12, 2022

Absolutely unbelievable!
n

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

westward10 said:
Are you saying an 'electrical engineer' has checked those fittings after you had fitted them.

Yup, I originally only fitted one, and asked him to come take a look before I fitted the rest (the one you see in the pic), he noted that they're not CE certified and would invalidate the landlords insurance so I sent them back and got them replaced for ones that were CE certified.
Then I fitted them all and had him check them (my landlord has gone through 4 different electricians in the 8 years I've lived here, he also owns the caravan site & pub next door, so they do the sites electric checks too).
The upstairs lighting loop is earthed, but the downstairs isn't.
I've also pointed out all the bare copper showing from rats gnawing at the cables in the loft space, they just handed me some tape.

As for dangerous the entire of our house was running through a 60a cable back at the main board which is located in the building next door until it melted (our feed comes from the caravan site).

DPG · Mar 12, 2022

You need to remove those fittings. A fault will most likely result in someone getting hurt.

brianmoooore · Mar 12, 2022

It's a legal requirement for your property to have a valid EICR, and you are entitled to a copy of it.
The EICR will be 'unsatisfactory' with those unearthed light fittings, and probably on several other points as well.
There are plenty of LED fittings available which do not require an earth.

westward10 · Mar 12, 2022

digsie said:
Yup, I originally only fitted one, and asked him to come take a look before I fitted the rest (the one you see in the pic), he noted that they're not CE certified and would invalidate the landlords insurance so I sent them back and got them replaced for ones that were CE certified.
Then I fitted them all and had him check them (my landlord has gone through 4 different electricians in the 8 years I've lived here, he also owns the caravan site & pub next door, so they do the sites electric checks too).
The upstairs lighting loop is earthed, but the downstairs isn't.
I've also pointed out all the bare copper showing from rats gnawing at the cables in the loft space, they just handed me some tape.

As for dangerous the entire of our house was running through a 60a cable back at the main board which is located in the building next door until it melted (our feed comes from the caravan site).

Two things here he isn't an electrician and second he as about as far being an engineer as Putin is to being the next Nobel peace prize winner.

freddo · Mar 12, 2022

The wiring looks odd/wrong too, 3 blacks connected to L and 1 black connected to N would not be a normal UK configuration?

I assume these lights have some sort of cover/diffuser?!

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

DPG said:
You need to remove those fittings. A fault will most likely result in someone getting hurt.

freddo said:
The wiring looks odd/wrong too, 3 blacks connected to L and 1 black connected to N would not be a normal UK configuration?

I assume these lights have some sort of cover/diffuser?!

Yeah the outer housing cover is acrylic with fake chrome work around the corners, there isn't anyone but me that touches them anyway so I'm not too concerned about electrocuting myself, I learned from a young age what happens when you plug yourself into the mains with a couple of paper clips, and how far you fly when you try to pull away after feeling the trickle turn into a torrent, the heat in the fingers & heart palpitations, a little zap doesn't really concern me.

As for the black cable, it's just a 3" extension, the red feed was too tight for my liking, didn't want to risk it cutting through the grommet over time, black was the only colour I could put my hands on at the time, hence the blue tape as a marker.

brianmoooore · Mar 12, 2022

So it's a live wire, and you've identified it as a neutral?
I take it the joint on the other end of this black wire is in a suitable enclosure?

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

brianmoooore said:
So it's a live wire, and you've identified it as a neutral?
I take it the joint on the other end of this black wire is in a suitable enclosure?

In effect yes, but the only person I was identifying it to was myself, and again I didn't have any red tape either, only blue.
Yeah I checked the breaker to find it's a 6a, so I used a 5a chocolate block, which I also covered in the same blue tape before shoving back into the ceiling cavity.

I know folks here are likely to be pro electricians frowning at my methods & misuse of colours, but really I just wanted to know if anyone had come across the issue in the original post before.
Most of you would probably faint if you saw what the rest of this houses electrical cabling looked like, I mean just the feeds from the fuse boards are comical.
Brb gonna go take a pic so you can see what I mean.

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

This was the handy work of trician #2, and at that he had to do the job twice 'cos he put the board slap bang in the back doors path, so you couldn't close it.
I got back home to a good giggle and called him back out to shift it all again.
I only have to put up with this system for another 3 years max, then we'll be moving on anyway, so I'm not too fussed about causing any headaches over legalities of it all.
I'm just baffled as to what is causing these two separate light fittings with different ballasts to have the same issue, it makes no sense to me.

DPG · Mar 12, 2022

digsie said:
In effect yes, but the only person I was identifying it to was myself, and again I didn't have any red tape either, only blue.
Yeah I checked the breaker to find it's a 6a, so I used a 5a chocolate block, which I also covered in the same blue tape before shoving back into the ceiling cavity.

I know folks here are likely to be pro electricians frowning at my methods & misuse of colours, but really I just wanted to know if anyone had come across the issue in the original post before.
Most of you would probably faint if you saw what the rest of this houses electrical cabling looked like, I mean just the feeds from the fuse boards are comical.
Brb gonna go take a pic so you can see what I mean.

When someone else touches your handywork and gets electrocuted, you will be the one to blame. Your attitude is scary.

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

These light fittings will be coming with me, and the originals going back up before I leave this place.
Nobody else is likely to be touching them at all, so please have no fear of my scary attitude, I'm wholly realistic of the situation, not playing on ifs...buts...& fantasies, nevermind any "when's".

freddo · Mar 12, 2022

digsie said:
View attachment 95998

What on earth is that?!

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

freddo said:
What on earth is that

The standard of work in this area, and folks worry about me electrocuting others hehe, anyone who touches any of the wiring in this house needs to have Bear Grylls survival skills 'cos we're all out to electrocute each other.
I don't profess to be an expert electrician, but as far as DIYers go, I think I could have done a better job, even if I did use whatever I had available.
I will box it in one day, when I'm in the mood.

westward10 · Mar 12, 2022

digsie said:
View attachment 95998

This was the handy work of trician #2, and at that he had to do the job twice 'cos he put the board slap bang in the back doors path, so you couldn't close it.
I got back home to a good giggle and called him back out to shift it all again.
I only have to put up with this system for another 3 years max, then we'll be moving on anyway, so I'm not too fussed about causing any headaches over legalities of it all.
I'm just baffled as to what is causing these two separate light fittings with different ballasts to have the same issue, it makes no sense to me.

Is that a supposed electricians work or yours.

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

westward10 said:
Is that a supposed electricians work or yours.

Definitely not mine, I'd have at least taped each joint & block up, and boxed it up.
Nope not guilty, this was electrician #2, it was done about 6 years ago, but again nobody is ever going to go near it, so I've had no incentive to box it up.

westward10 · Mar 12, 2022

You need to insist your landlord undertakes an EICR in accordance with the law.

digsie · Mar 12, 2022

westward10 said:
You need to insist your landlord undertakes an EICR in accordance with the law.

Yup I sure will, right before I want his eviction notice, then it'll give me a get out of jail free card.
Until then it's a convenience thing to just look the other way.

LED Ceiling panel light switching on in standby mode (on the 4th switch on)

digsie

westward10

digsie

westward10

DPG

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digsie

westward10

brianmoooore

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digsie

DPG

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brianmoooore

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westward10

freddo

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digsie

brianmoooore

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digsie

digsie

DPG

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digsie

freddo

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digsie

westward10

digsie

westward10

digsie

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