Moved house into a disaster zone

fourtytwo · Jul 11, 2022

Whew makes me wonder if a part P inspection should be part of the house move process!
The house I have moved into is a nightmare, I thought isolating the lethal external wiring would do the trick but today I was stupid enough to start inspecting some suspicious power sockets around the house.........Ohh myyy
The first delight was a mystery spur fuse turned on but what did it power ? well it seemed nothing, on further investigation the spur it fed in 2.5mm disappeared into the wall behind the back box and upon pulling came free with a cut-off end!!

[ElectriciansForums.net] Moved house into a disaster zone

As I continued I kept finding loose screws resulting in wires pulling free from the sockets (not sure about TV antenna in same back box behind blank plate either)

As I progressed along the loose screw brigade things got more serious, here we have a Neutral ring break

And then the worst uncovered so far a high resistance arcing live ring break that has melted the insulation, made contact with the earth and blown it in half resulting in an earth ring break also

Needless to say the damaged socket was replaced. I have many more disasters found and undoubtedly given the quality of what I have found so far more to come. My most serious worry is loose terminals in junction boxes under the floors (there are many spurs with no apparent source) that are now unfortunately covered with wretched laminate flooring over the floorboards.
I will add further horrors for those who can stand it!

brianmoooore · Jul 16, 2022

It might nuisance trip, but if it does, the insulation resistance is at a minimum 67 times worse than the minimum allowable. The RCD will be doing its job, trying to keep you alive, either from dying directly by electrocution, or in a house fire.

brianmoooore · Jul 16, 2022

I have seen lengths of VIR cable, several inches long, where the insulation has completely crumbled away, leaving three bare parallel wires. These will give an absolutely perfect reading if tested with a megger - right up to the point they are disturbed.

westward10 · Jul 16, 2022

That doesn't look like laminate flooring more like Moduleo or Karndean or though I could be wrong. I do know it is seriously expensive as I have Moduleo but it can be lifted reboarded and relaid but you would need a suitable fitter.

fourtytwo · Jul 16, 2022

brianmoooore said:
It might nuisance trip, but if it does, the insulation resistance is at a minimum 67 times worse than the minimum allowable. The RCD will be doing its job, trying to keep you alive, either from dying directly by electrocution, or in a house fire.

My feelings too Brian, I think you just tipped the balance, as if it nuisance trips the floors will have to come up anyway. Would you like to opinion if a spark would be prepared to fit a tail type RCD to this installation assuming I can find one (qualified spark) ?

brianmoooore · Jul 16, 2022

What state are the ceilings in? There's more than one way of getting into the ceiling - floor void.

westward10 · Jul 16, 2022

I doubt any electrician with a conscious would replace that consumer unit unless it was an emergency fit.

Dustydazzler · Jul 16, 2022

I certainly wouldn't touch that board unless it was part of a full re-wire

fourtytwo · Jul 16, 2022

westward10 said:
That doesn't look like laminate flooring more like Moduleo or Karndean or though I could be wrong. I do know it is seriously expensive as I have Moduleo but it can be lifted reboarded and relaid but you would need a suitable fitter.

Hmmm I am no expert having never had the stuff before. It seems to be in modules about two planks wide by maybe a metre long, very tight joints, almost invisible and no big expansion gap around the edges, what there is is firmly under the skirting boards all round

brianmoooore · Jul 16, 2022

I'm suggesting an external RCD, fitted into the tails.

fourtytwo · Jul 16, 2022

Thanks for the replies about the board guy's, I had a feeling that would be the case so for now I am stuck where I am!!
Brian, I had one of those in my last house that was fed overhead from the street. This house is underground lead sheathed used as earth. By the way I don't know why the foam behind the DNO's board, looks a right mess!!

timhoward · Jul 16, 2022

It's really the issue that Brian mentioned - disturb it and it can be instantly a dead short.
If you post a wider-angle picture showing the tails it would help - I might consider adding an up-front RCD subject to a global IR test.

westward10 · Jul 16, 2022

This is what I have most people think it is wood but is a digital image on a thick vinyl slat, it is very effective as it has a textured finish and bevelled edge

.

fourtytwo · Jul 16, 2022

brianmoooore said:
What state are the ceilings in? There's more than one way of getting into the ceiling - floor void.

I would hazard a guess lathe & plaster, this is a just post war house its hard to be exact as there is heavy ceiling paper but good idea

fourtytwo · Jul 16, 2022

timhoward said:
It's really the issue that Brian mentioned - disturb it and it can be instantly a dead short.
If you post a wider-angle picture showing the tails it would help - I might consider adding an up-front RCD subject to a global IR test.

Do you mean a wider angle picture inside the CU Tim ? I have something here

timhoward · Jul 16, 2022

fourtytwo said:
Do you mean a wider angle picture inside the CU Tim ? I have something here

I missed the photo in post 35, sorry. I don't see any reason why an up-front RCD can't be fitted. It would at least mean that if a significant vibration occurs and the VIR moves you get a trip not a fire.

But even noting your comments about decor, please get a rewire under way soon!

fourtytwo · Jul 16, 2022

I had a nasty thought about a full blown IR test at 500V, might it finish off the VIR, as in cause it to breakdown whereas at 240Vrms its just hanging in there..... Phew what a nightmare.

Mike Johnson · Jul 17, 2022

I think you need to step back and look at the difference between disturbing some decoration and flooring or risking the life of your family, or burning the place down, at the absolute minimum an up front RCD in the meantime.

Obviously some work has been done on the circuits as I note that there are two circuits in Brown that presumably the Blues belong too, but two Browns and Three Blues?

pc1966 · Jul 17, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
Obviously some work has been done on the circuits as I note that there are two circuits in Brown that presumably the Blues belong too, but two Browns and Three Blues?

The 6A with VIR, probably old lights, has a brown as well.

I wonder if it has had an extension or kitchen re-fit hence partly rewired?

Mike Johnson · Jul 17, 2022

The B32 next to the main switch look like it may have an old faded brown, this is always assuming the latest circuits where T&E?

fourtytwo · Jul 17, 2022

pc1966 said:
The 6A with VIR, probably old lights, has a brown as well.

I wonder if it has had an extension or kitchen re-fit hence partly rewired?

It has been partially rewired as nearly all the sockets have pvc 2.5mm in them although mostly red/black. The left hand side of the house however that is mainly the kitchen & one upstairs bedroom is VIR in the sockets. The 32A on the left is the ring with VIR that goes upstairs, however the socket in the bedroom above is pvc!! I would love to be able to see under the floors.
Moving to the right the 6A has two VIR lighting feeds in it, the brown is from a 6A flex to a 13A socket above the CU since removed entirely, it actually fell off the wall as it was glued on

Moving to the right again the 16A used to have one of the VIR lighting feeds in it, I moved it to the left for safety.
Moving to the right again the 32A is cooker.
Moving to the right again the 6A is a spur to only a bugler alarm.
Moving to the right again the 16A is a spur to the garage that runs along the outside wall low down (Uggghhh), I believe this was added when the previous owner encountered problems powering a hot tub from the garage as they had made such a mess of the ring wiring it very nearly caught fire (there was melting & smoke damage in one socket from arcing). Hopefully now there is no hot tub and the ring is repaired I can restore the garage to it's original internal spur and remove this particular abortion.
There is an extension, single story dining room added quite a long time ago and that is all in pvc.
The few (2-3) light switches I have examined in the rest of the house are all VIR.

fourtytwo · Jul 17, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
The B32 next to the main switch look like it may have an old faded brown, this is always assuming the latest circuits where T&E?

Nope just the two 7/029 VIR's

fourtytwo · Jul 17, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
I think you need to step back and look at the difference between disturbing some decoration and flooring or risking the life of your family, or burning the place down, at the absolute minimum an up front RCD in the meantime.

Obviously some work has been done on the circuits as I note that there are two circuits in Brown that presumably the Blues belong too, but two Browns and Three Blues?

You missed one of the browns, probably the one in the 6A with the two lighting VIR's.
It would be very nice to get an RCD fitted but I have already been trying to get a plumber for the last 2 weeks and frankly finding any professionals is very difficult. Unfortunatly we have landed from space on Mars as we are new to this area and know nobody, neighbours are also faced with similar problems.

Mike Johnson · Jul 17, 2022

Must be my eyesight, but I can see three cables into the B32.

Mike Johnson · Jul 17, 2022

I'm looking at this picture, so there are three cables into the 6A?

fourtytwo · Jul 17, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
Must be my eyesight, but I can see three cables into the B32.

There was when I first arrived, the 6A flax to the double socket was in the B32 till I moved it to the adjacent B6, are you looking at the recent picture in this thread after the move was done or in one of my other threads before the move of that wire I wonder.
EDIT
Ahh yes that is the earlier more deadly picture!
If you look at the picture in post#39 this thread that nasty piece of 6A flex has now been removed completely along with the double socket it was feeding. And as described above the 2nd VIR lighting feed has been moved from a 16A to the same 6A as the other lighting feed.
Sorry for the confusion but there were some things that needed doing immediately!
EDIT EDIT
But looking at the closeup in post#17 I think you may be right, it does look like there are 3 pieces of VIR in the 32A, I dont want to disturb it to look closer but I assume this may be a local spur connection.

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