Bathroom refit, do I need a RCD?

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

Hi all,

I'm refitting my bathroom in my first floor flat (top floor) built around 1989. It has 2 CUs, one for night storage and one for 24h electrics, they are of the 1980's era Crabtree, the label on the side says BS5486

ART 13 CM16.

The hot and cold are run in plastic from the Immersion heater located outside the bathroom.
The mains water is supplied to the flat in plastic and then copper to the kitchen sink and toilet, this is "bonded" to the CU earth terminal.

Items with potential in the room :
The toilet has a short piece of copper pipe in the Outside Zone to the cistern.
There is a fan isolation switch in the Outside Zone (the fan unit is in the loft).
There is a shaver socket in the Outside Zone (isolation transformer type).

The ceiling is 2.45m high and therefore in the Outside Zone I believe.
I would like to fit fire rated IP65 downlights to the existing lighting circuit (which also has the fan and shaver socket on it).
So in short, there will be nothing with any potential in Zones 0,1 or 2. and there will be no new circuits.

Am I right in thinking that changing a central light to 4 downlights is not classed as a new circuit?.

I know a RCD is desirable but is it strictly necessary in this instance?

The flat will need to pass a EICR but I realy don't need the expense of changing the CUs as I'm on a budget.

Cheers,
John

westward10 · Aug 31, 2022

The alteration will need to comply with current Regulations so bathroom or not 30ma rcd protection is required.

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

Thanks Westward,
I feared as much, that's why I went into such detail to make sure. I'm not an electrician and don't know the current regs, only what I've gleaned.

What are my options?
RCBO?
Surface mount RCD?
New CU?
Anything else?

If I go with a new CU, does this mean I will need to replace both CU's? Each has its own feed from the meter, the storage heat times are controlled by SSE "teleswitch" and the meter switches on the extra live out when commanded.
Cheers

westward10 · Aug 31, 2022

Is your consumer unit Crabtree Starbreaker.

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

I don’t think so, here are some photos

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

Looks like an SB6000, is that a Starbreaker

westward10 · Aug 31, 2022

No they are SB6000. They did make rcbos for them but were two module and would now be second hand. Finding one for a 6 or 10A lighting circuit is likely to be difficult. It is likely they never existed.

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

Thanks.
so the RCBO route is out really.
If I were to just replace the central light with a new modern one, would that also need an RCD?
And a difficult question to answer, but I won’t hold you to it, if nothing changes, is the Flat likely to fail a EICR on the Consumer Units alone I.e. age and lack of ECB, assuming everything else in the flat is ok?

DPG · Aug 31, 2022

Are you going to be renting this flat out to tennants?

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

Hi DPG,
Not at the moment but I may do in the future.

timhoward · Aug 31, 2022

Johnstar said:
And a difficult question to answer, but I won’t hold you to it, if nothing changes, is the Flat likely to fail a EICR on the Consumer Units alone I.e. age and lack of ECB, assuming everything else in the flat is ok?

Do you know if there is supplementary bonding in the bathroom? If there isn't it would be much easier to change the CU than to add it.
Assuming it does have the supplementary bonding, and noting it is a a top floor so no sockets are likely to be used outside, it wouldn't have automatic C2's fail for lack of RCD protection according to BPG4. This assumes the installation tests as fault-free in every other regard.

No one should be entertaining a rental property without RCD protection these days though, it's just common sense that you want tenants to have a level of safety that is now commonplace among dwellings.

DPG · Aug 31, 2022

Johnstar said:
Hi DPG,
Not at the moment but I may do in the future.

I'd be very wary of renting it out with no RCD protection anywhere.

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

Hi Tim, thanks for your answer.
I accept that RCDs should be fitted for rentals and that is something to consider.
Re the sup. bonding. The pipes are all plastic (save the toilet) so there is nothing to bond. There is a bit more detail on that in my first post.
So given the plastic pipes and if the Flat passes all tests, there is no obvious reason why the current CUs should cause a fail assuming they are in good order?
How would a tester go about checking the plastic pipes?

Johnstar · Aug 31, 2022

DPG said:
I'd be very wary of renting it out with no RCD protection anywhere.

Yes, understood. I have been told I need an EICR by the management company. I’m starting to think that they have this wrong as I’m the owner and it’s not going to be rented in the near future anyway.
As it’s just me, I’m happy without any RCDs especially due to the cost ( I’m guessing hundreds of £s) but I’m worried that when I get it inspected it will fail. Now I’m questioning if I need to get it inspected at all?

Taylortwocities · Aug 31, 2022

Another thought.

In a building such as yours, each flat is its own fire compartment. This means that surfaces like ceilings are specified and installed as fire barriers.
Turning a fire barrier into something resembling swiss cheese to fit a few downlights need special consideration.

You must, must fit fire-rated downlights so that, should a fire start in your fire-compartment, that it cannot spread quickly, through your downlight holes and into the roof of the building.