Bathroom refit, do I need a RCD?

[Johnstar]

Hi all,

I'm refitting my bathroom in my first floor flat (top floor) built around 1989. It has 2 CUs, one for night storage and one for 24h electrics, they are of the 1980's era Crabtree, the label on the side says BS5486ART 13 CM16.

The hot and cold are run in plastic from the Immersion heater located outside the bathroom.
The mains water is supplied to the flat in plastic and then copper to the kitchen sink and toilet, this is "bonded" to the CU earth terminal.

Items with potential in the room :
The toilet has a short piece of copper pipe in the Outside Zone to the cistern.
There is a fan isolation switch in the Outside Zone (the fan unit is in the loft).
There is a shaver socket in the Outside Zone (isolation transformer type).

The ceiling is 2.45m high and therefore in the Outside Zone I believe.
I would like to fit fire rated IP65 downlights to the existing lighting circuit (which also has the fan and shaver socket on it).
So in short, there will be nothing with any potential in Zones 0,1 or 2. and there will be no new circuits.

Am I right in thinking that changing a central light to 4 downlights is not classed as a new circuit?.

I know a RCD is desirable but is it strictly necessary in this instance?

The flat will need to pass a EICR but I realy don't need the expense of changing the CUs as I'm on a budget.

Cheers,
John

 

[swaRRR]

Utter nonsense!

Lol you've glossed over where i said i wasn't sure?

You know it would add to the conversation if you actually said what the rule was instead of just saying 'nonsense'.

 

[Johnstar]

Lol you've glossed over where i said i wasn't sure?

You know it would add to the conversation if you actually said what the rule was instead of just saying 'nonsense'.

Just for giggles mate, you said that you weren’t 100% sure which mean that you were somewhere between 0% and 99% sure. It would be useful if you could narrow down the range of sureness a bit!
No offence mate just giggling

 

[Johnstar]

Yes. Domestic installs now all circuits require RCD protection if i remember rightly. Would have to check regs to be 100% but as far as i remember you're only allowed to not have RCD protection in commercial premises and only when the appropriate risk assessments have been done to justify not having it.

Hi,
Found this in a video of 18th addiction changes.
It’s not the full regulation, just an overview of what has changed since 17th but it does mention the risk assessment.
The vid is by John Ward

 

[timhoward]

Hi,
Found this in a video of 18th addiction changes.
It’s not the full regulation, just an overview of what has changed since 17th but it does mention the risk assessment.
The vid is by John Ward

JW makes good videos, but due to the whirlwind world we live in it is sadly already out of date as amendment 2 to the 18th edition (mandatory from end of current month) has further changes.

From a domestic point of view you mainly need to know that the latest regs require socket circuits and lighting circuits to have 30ma Type A RCD protection. New work needs to meet this standard.

While a risk assessment and omitting RCD protection is possible, the permitted circumstances are so narrow in amendment 2 that it isn't worth describing it in detail. It will never apply to domestic installations as there will always be unskilled / ordinary people present.

 

[Johnstar]

JW makes good videos, but due to the whirlwind world we live in it is sadly already out of date as amendment 2 to the 18th edition (mandatory from end of current month) has further changes.

From a domestic point of view you mainly need to know that the latest regs require socket circuits and lighting circuits to have 30ma Type A RCD protection. New work needs to meet this standard.

While a risk assessment and omitting RCD protection is possible, the permitted circumstances are so narrow in amendment 2 that it isn't worth describing it in detail. It will never apply to domestic installations as there will always be unskilled / ordinary people present.

To summarise my situation:
If I change the existing light for another it is NOT a new installation.
If I replace the light with say 4 downlights then it IS a new instillation.
All new instillations have to meet the current regs which means an RCD would be mandatory.
There is no requirement to fit an RCD as long as the unchanged current installation complies with the regulations at the time it was designed (1989) with bonding.

It is always desirable and safer to fit an RCD and I will do this when I have the money and at that point I may fit the downlights.

 

[UNG]

Lol you've glossed over where i said i wasn't sure?

You know it would add to the conversation if you actually said what the rule was instead of just saying 'nonsense'.

Why engage the keyboard if you are not sure if your wrong you are most certainly going to be shot down

 

[UNG]

Yes, understood. I have been told I need an EICR by the management company. I’m starting to think that they have this wrong as I’m the owner and it’s not going to be rented in the near future anyway.

It is quite common for management companies who are managing blocks of flats to require an EICR every 5 years for all the individual flats regardless of whether they are owner occupied or rented out to ensure all parts of the property is a safe condition

As it’s just me, I’m happy without any RCDs especially due to the cost ( I’m guessing hundreds of £s) but I’m worried that when I get it inspected it will fail. Now I’m questioning if I need to get it inspected at all?

The problem you may have is the condition of the electrical installations in the other flats if they all have RCD's it may look odd that you haven't and the management company may request that you fit them. The part of the EICR that may draw attention to the lack of RCD's is the observations as codings will highlight the parts of the installation that needs improvement or remedial work

 

[Johnstar]

It is quite common for management companies who are managing blocks of flats to require an EICR every 5 years for all the individual flats regardless of whether they are owner occupied or rented out to ensure all parts of the property is a safe condition

The problem you may have is the condition of the electrical installations in the other flats if they all have RCD's it may look odd that you haven't and the management company may request that you fit them. The part of the EICR that may draw attention to the lack of RCD's is the observations as codings will highlight the parts of the installation that needs improvement or remedial work

Hi UNG,
Thanks for the reply, a bit more for me to consider.
On a further note, I have two CUs in the flat one that is energised twice a day for storage heat and hot water and the other for lights and sockets etc.

Given the storage heat one does not have any sockets attached as the heaters all have switched fixed outlets, does that also come under the RCD regulations?

I keep reading RCDs are required for lights and sockets, no one mentions fixed outlets.

 

[brianmoooore]

Any cable buried in a wall at a depth of between 0 mm and 50mm needs 30mA max. RCD protection .

 

[Johnstar]

Any cable buried in a wall at a depth of between 0 mm and 50mm needs 30mA max. RCD protection .

Thanks Brian,
That makes sense, just in case someone bangs a nail in ️