Safely split ceiling lamp for three bulbs.

Spools · Oct 14, 2022

Hey all.

New here and new to 3 phase.
I had some electric experience on set in Los Angeles as a gaffer for a couple of years, but it was mainly single-phase - counting amps and avoiding blowing circuits type deal. Also did basic wiring in my old 73 chevy truck as well. So nothing huge.

But now, living in Austria, I'm met with 3 phase.

I have a kitchen ceiling unit that I'm looking to replace with a custom lamp.
(I've done some wood working and now looking to add 3 individual bulbs from this new unit as an overhead unit)

Question is, can I simply split the existing hot and ground three ways from the existing lamp directly to the respective three new bulbs/units I intend to have?

Avo Mk8 · Oct 14, 2022

Spools said:
Question is, can I simply split the existing hot and ground three ways from the existing lamp directly to the respective three new bulbs/units I intend to have?

Yes
(assuming you're not powering theatre lights

)

Spools · Oct 14, 2022

Avo Mk8 said:
Yes
(assuming you're not powering theatre lights )

Haha - LED - under 60w each - dimmer at switch. Straight forward.

I suppose a better question is, what is the best way to split it?

Divy it up three ways, connect and shrink wrap?
I'm a bit of a perfectionist with this stuff and having trouble envisioning the cleanest way to do this.

Avo Mk8 · Oct 14, 2022

Spools said:
Haha - LED - under 60w each - dimmer at switch. Straight forward.

I suppose a better question is, what is the best way to split it?

Divy it up three ways, connect and shrink wrap?
I'm a bit of a perfectionist with this stuff and having trouble envisioning the cleanest way to do this.

Depending on the space available, what you can buy, and local practice, you might use push-in connectors as below

Wago 773-104 Push Wire Connector 0.75mm - 2.5mm 4 Way | Wago_Connectors (773-104)

or the lever type (assuming your wires are the appropriate gauge!)

Rockingit · Oct 14, 2022

Avo Mk8 said:
Yes
(assuming you're not powering theatre lights )

Most of those are now LED anyway!! (New ones, naturally)

James · Oct 14, 2022

Instead of trying to split 1 wire into 3 wires,
go to the first light, cable in and a second cable out to the next light, rinse and repeat as necessary

Spools · Nov 6, 2022

Thanks, guys.
I curbed this project for a couple weeks, but back to wrap it up.

I like the plug and play idea of a connector.
Amazon.de is showing poor results - I see this here
But I don't like the design with how all of the hot is left, and all of neutral right for example.

I found this on google, which looks much cleaner as I can simple keep each L/N together for each lamp:

3 Way 2 Conductor Push-In Quick Connect Wire Splitter

Housing : Polyamide or PolypropyleneRated Voltage: 0-42V DCRated Current: Input: Max 9A; Output: Max 1.5AWire Capacity: 0.34-0.75mm2

www.ledlightinghut.com

What do you guys think? Any thoughts on that product?
It's rated at 9amps... I can't imagine I'll draw nearly 20% of that on 230v.

brianmoooore · Nov 6, 2022

Spools said:
I found this on google, which looks much cleaner as I can simple keep each L/N together for each lamp:

3 Way 2 Conductor Push-In Quick Connect Wire Splitter

Housing : Polyamide or PolypropyleneRated Voltage: 0-42V DCRated Current: Input: Max 9A; Output: Max 1.5AWire Capacity: 0.34-0.75mm2

www.ledlightinghut.com

Rated 42 volts max.

Spools · Nov 6, 2022

brianmoooore said:
Rated 42 volts max.

Nice catch - thank you. Any suggestions on something similar?

brianmoooore · Nov 6, 2022

The wagos already mentioned. I'm sure they're available throughout Europe.
I see you're in Austria, the only place I can now watch F1 live from, thanks to ORF and Servus, without paying exorbitant fees to that crook and general scumbag, Murdoch

Spools · Nov 6, 2022

brianmoooore said:
The wagos already mentioned. I'm sure they're available throughout Europe.
I see you're in Austria, the only place I can now watch F1 live from, thanks to ORF and Servus, without paying exorbitant fees to that crook and general scumbag, Murdoch

Haha. I stay away from cable TV as I did in the states, but watch ORF and Servus at the in laws the same way Fox News hits my parents when I’m home.

My go to has always been SKY when watching games back in the states. I think they’re English though.

brianmoooore · Nov 6, 2022

I receive ORF and Servus via the internet and synchronise it to a live sound commentary from an English radio station.
Sky is Murdoch, and they provide excellent coverage of F1, in exchange for many hundreds of GB pounds per year. Full F1 coverage is also available worldwide on F1TV, via the internet, at the very reasonable cost of about £60 per year, but this is blocked in the UK by Murdoch and Sky.

nicebutdim · Nov 6, 2022

brianmoooore said:
The wagos already mentioned. I'm sure they're available throughout Europe.
I see you're in Austria, the only place I can now watch F1 live from, thanks to ORF and Servus, without paying exorbitant fees to that crook and general scumbag, Murdoch

I'd be amazed if German made connectors were unavailable in Austria.

Spools · Nov 7, 2022

brianmoooore said:
I receive ORF and Servus via the internet and synchronise it to a live sound commentary from an English radio station.
Sky is Murdoch, and they provide excellent coverage of F1, in exchange for many hundreds of GB pounds per year. Full F1 coverage is also available worldwide on F1TV, via the internet, at the very reasonable cost of about £60 per year, but this is blocked in the UK by Murdoch and Sky.

Murdoch had SKY too?! Sticky paws man…

I’m surprised the syncing works for you, but I’m glad it does! I would usually have a delay of a play or two when streaming NFL games.

Spools · Nov 7, 2022

nicebutdim said:
I'd be amazed if German made connectors were unavailable in Austria.

You’d be surprised the trouble I have working my hobbies in Austria. There’s a boat load of rules and regulations when working on autos.

They don’t have nearly the same amount or similiar products for wood working at the local OBI (Home Depot.) I’ll have to go to a speciality store outside the city for contractors and even then, wood conditioner doesn’t exist, I had to make my own.

Electricity wise, let’s see, I never really got my hands dirty in this realm here yet. I tried out a dimmer in the office but, for whatever reason struggled. (That’s a different post altogether.)

nicebutdim · Nov 7, 2022

Spools said:
You’d be surprised the trouble I have working my hobbies in Austria. There’s a boat load of rules and regulations when working on autos.

They don’t have nearly the same amount or similiar products for wood working at the local OBI (Home Depot.) I’ll have to go to a speciality store outside the city for contractors and even then, wood conditioner doesn’t exist, I had to make my own.

Electricity wise, let’s see, I never really got my hands dirty in this realm here yet. I tried out a dimmer in the office but, for whatever reason struggled. (That’s a different post altogether.)

Wago connectors are widely used worldwide and extensively within Europe. While not all connectors are available in every market, I'd be confident that 773 (push fit for solid/coarse stranded conductors), 2273 (compact push fit for solid conductors) and 221 (lever type for solid/coarse stranded/fine stranded) ranges are available to you.

Edit: Also worth looking at their 224 range, which is specifically intended for lighting.

Spools · Nov 7, 2022

nicebutdim said:
Wago connectors are widely used worldwide and extensively within Europe. While not all connectors are available in every market, I'd be confident that 773 (push fit for solid/coarse stranded conductors), 2273 (compact push fit for solid conductors) and 221 (lever type for solid/coarse stranded/fine stranded) ranges are available to you.

Edit: Also worth looking at their 224 range, which is specifically intended for lighting.

Thanks man.

This would all be easiest with a keyword or link for purchase. Anyone know of one?

I seem to be 'asking' 'researching' the wrong question when seeking this push connector/splitter online.
For example here, but I'm only finding one to one connectors.

Avo Mk8 · Nov 7, 2022

Spools said:
Thanks man.

This would all be easiest with a keyword or link for purchase. Anyone know of one?

I seem to be 'asking' 'researching' the wrong question when seeking this push connector/splitter online.
For example here, but I'm only finding one to one connectors.

Just type"Wago" and select the one you want!
and follow that with a number from post #16 if you want to narrow it down.

WAGO 222–415 gs605uk Hebel Cage Clamp Terminal Block Anschlüsse – Grau (5 Stück) : Amazon.de: Baumarkt

www.amazon.de

Or If you have solid conductors:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Pack-2273-204-Compact-Connection-Terminals/dp/B07PF4GKSH/ref=d_bmx_dp_7f7q24ln_sccl_3_3/257-6100413-5894555?

nicebutdim · Nov 7, 2022

Spools said:
Thanks man.

This would all be easiest with a keyword or link for purchase. Anyone know of one?

I seem to be 'asking' 'researching' the wrong question when seeking this push connector/splitter online.
For example here, but I'm only finding one to one connectors.

As above - google 'Wago' followed by the range number and you then just select the number of ways you need (i.e. the number of individual wires that need to be connected in common).

Spools · Nov 7, 2022

Avo Mk8 said:
Just type"Wago" and select the one you want!
and follow that with a number from post #16 if you want to narrow it down.

WAGO 222–415 gs605uk Hebel Cage Clamp Terminal Block Anschlüsse – Grau (5 Stück) : Amazon.de: Baumarkt

WAGO 222–415 gs605uk Hebel Cage Clamp Terminal Block Anschlüsse – Grau (5 Stück) : Amazon.de: Baumarkt

www.amazon.de

Or If you have solid conductors:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Pack-2273-204-Compact-Connection-Terminals/dp/B07PF4GKSH/ref=d_bmx_dp_7f7q24ln_sccl_3_3/257-6100413-5894555?

Is the Amazon.de though going to suit my splitting needs? My naive self was envisioning more of a “spliter” configuration.

With the Amazon.de link here, would I be able to place L from the ceiling in one end and appropriately power three separate L for three bulbs on the other?

(I was under the impression that these connections were one to one where each of the four were separated. One for L, N, G…)

nicebutdim · Nov 7, 2022

Spools said:
Is the Amazon.de though going to suit my splitting needs? My naive self was envisioning more of a “spliter” configuration.

With the Amazon.de link here, would I be able to place L from the ceiling in one end and appropriately power three separate L for three bulbs on the other?

(I was under the impression that these connections were one to one where each of the four were separated. One for L, N, G…)

Yes you would use one connector for each conductor being spilt and place them in a suitable enclosure - dependent, of course, on Austrian wiring regulations. If splitting in three directions, then each incoming conductor would go in its own 4 way connector.

While ready made solutions exist, we don't know what sort of cable is being used and I'd be inclined to avoid no-name splitters sold on Amazon or eBay.

Avo Mk8 · Nov 8, 2022

Spools said:
Is the Amazon.de though going to suit my splitting needs? My naive self was envisioning more of a “spliter” configuration.

You are making it more complicated than it is.
Each Wago just connects all the incoming/outgoing wires together.
Unless you are insanely OCD, you don't need incoming on one side and outgoing on the other. The electrons won't mind - you just need to connect all the lives, or earths, or neutrals, each with a separate Wago thus:
(example for the neutrals, you need to do the same for lives and earths!)

[ElectriciansForums.net] Safely split ceiling lamp for three bulbs.

Spools · Nov 8, 2022

Avo Mk8 said:
You are making it more complicated than it is.
Each Wago just connects all the incoming/outgoing wires together.
Unless you are insanely OCD, you don't need incoming on one side and outgoing on the other. The electrons won't mind - you just need to connect all the lives, or earths, or neutrals, each with a separate Wago thus:
(example for the neutrals, you need to do the same for lives and earths!)
View attachment 103443

That one sentence helped me tremendously... "you don't need incoming on one side and outgoing on the other. The electrons won't mind"

And yeah, not OCD, but I am good at asking 5 questions to get 2 different confirmations on a topic I've never been proper mentored in - especially online.

So with all of that, if I were to grab two of these Wago connectors and just slam all of L in one and all of G in another, I would have me a solid set up then? As drawn in my 'professional' schematic below?

littlespark · Nov 8, 2022

No..

The neutral is used for the return path. The ground is a safety feature which should be connected to the metallic body of the fitting.

Spools · Nov 8, 2022

littlespark said:
No..

The neutral is used for the return path. The ground is a safety feature which should be connected to the metallic body of the fitting.

Duh… This is why I ask many questions.

(In fairness, I slipped up there because the electrician that ran the wiring in my apartment didn’t exactly stick to the same color throughout)

But yes, you’re* absolutely right.

So, I’m swapping N for G in my schematic above, then I’m good to go?
(Ground cable is essentially “not used” for all light fixtures in the house)