This is going to take me weeks.....

littlespark · Mar 5, 2023

Got an EICR testing to do on a site soon. Some was done 2018, some 2014... but their office cant find the reports... So got to start from scratch on mapping out circuits.

There's 2 holiday cottages, half a day each. Modern RCBO consumer units. A cafe with some 3ph equipment, A workshop for the gardener/handyman and a little shop all in one courtyard.
Then there's the office, and a couple of self contained flats above, which i believe were last tested in 2020.. so can be left for now.

Then there's this.....

[ElectriciansForums.net] This is going to take me weeks.....

so far i've found 12 old fuseboards.... only a few have been "upgraded" to mcb. There must be more as they're labelled A,B,C,D etc... and i cant find E, J or L
Apart from the cottages, everything is a mix of singles in conduit, MICC, T&E........ Rewirable fuses, cartridge fuses, Old SquareD Qo type breakers (the black ones).....

There are rooms off staircases that don't appear on any of their plans... other doors that have been locked off for decades and the keys have disappeared. (there's a story there for another time)

And it all needs to be done before they open to the public at Easter.

plugsandsparks · Mar 5, 2023

Hope you have some help, electric scooter springs to mind for all the mileage involved..

Rockingit · Mar 5, 2023

littlespark said:
Got an EICR testing to do on a site soon. Some was done 2018, some 2014... but their office cant find the reports... So got to start from scratch on mapping out circuits.

There's 2 holiday cottages, half a day each. Modern RCBO consumer units. A cafe with some 3ph equipment, A workshop for the gardener/handyman and a little shop all in one courtyard.
Then there's the office, and a couple of self contained flats above, which i believe were last tested in 2020.. so can be left for now.

Then there's this.....

View attachment 106570

so far i've found 12 old fuseboards.... only a few have been "upgraded" to mcb. There must be more as they're labelled A,B,C,D etc... and i cant find E, J or L
Apart from the cottages, everything is a mix of singles in conduit, MICC, T&E........ Rewirable fuses, cartridge fuses, Old SquareD Qo type breakers (the black ones).....

There are rooms off staircases that don't appear on any of their plans... other doors that have been locked off for decades and the keys have disappeared. (there's a story there for another time)

And it all needs to be done before they open to the public at Easter.

If you need a hand give me a shout - that’s right up my street as a daft challenge!!

pirate · Mar 5, 2023

Looking at the size of that place, even a "drive by" EICR is going to take you an hour!
Mind you, I'd also be up for lending a hand as a daft challenge!
You'll need 3 or 4 helpers and a set of good walkie-talkies (one of the other great gadgets we use nowadays!)
Sadly, the Borders is just out of range for me.

buzzlightyear · Mar 5, 2023

i love those bed and buckfast places .no sleeping bags near the front door AIRBNB .

buzzlightyear · Mar 5, 2023

pirate said:
Sadly, the Borders is just out of range for me

front door looks good .

littlespark · Mar 5, 2023

buzzlightyear said:
front door looks good .

i think that's the back door.

westward10 · Mar 5, 2023

Right up my street jobs like that, me and a good mate just working your way through it.

marconi · Mar 5, 2023

It would be interesting to follow your work via some short video diary reports. Bound to be interesting if only to chat with the people who work there.

littlespark · Mar 5, 2023

I don't know about video diarys... There's some places in there they want kept off the internet for some reason. Hence the locked doors.. they don't want visitors on the guided tours stumbling across things.

I got into one of the self contained flats at the top of the right hand side tower there... full of old clothes, boxes, trinkets etc. There was a wooden chest that simply had "guns and swords" written on it.... and that's exactly what was in there. Musket pistols and a couple of short foils.

History is amazing... although i couldnt stand the lessons at school. This is real.

I'm surprised the guided tours only go through a handful of rooms now. Maybe they'll extend back down to the basement again where they used to show the butlers pantry with dumb waiter and servant call system.

There's a billiard table in one room not getting used, and years gone by, they used to hold weddings... so there's rooms in the basement set up for catering with separate metered supplies, as well as bedroom suites for the wedding party.

The show rooms also have hidden switches that bring on picture lights, and 5A sockets for table lamps, tucked away behind hinged doors on the wooden panelling.

littlespark · Mar 7, 2023

Started with one of the holiday cottages today… and a handful of C3’s already. Nothing too serious.

Non standard set up. 2 cottages adjacent to each. Supplies come from one of the big DBs from the main house. Big DB also feeds public toilets.

From photo you can see SWA coming from main DB into isolator+mcb on right, through meter, for simple monitoring, then into cottage DB

You can get a bus through the holes the tails go through.

Underfloor heating in both cottages is fed from boiler for toilets… so that sw/fuse is live when cottage is isolated, and also on a different phase.

I believe (and will check next week when I do other cottage) that the hard wired smoke detectors are supplied from this cottage, but also feed the ones next door. Which means next door has all 3 phases present.

Intoelectrics · Mar 7, 2023

@ littlespark,

May I ask,

Have you priced this as a total job, in stages or on an agreed day rate?

littlespark · Mar 7, 2023

Just my day/ hourly rate…. And if they come back saying they can get it done for £80, then I’ll say it won’t be done right. (Which they won’t… but other customers did once)

It’s took me 3 hours once I got there to test the 6 circuits, dismantle part of the kitchen kickboard to find the main bond… map out the circuits as they weren't labelled… and another hour to type it up tonight.

While I’m on site, I’m still doing the odd repair job, prepping for other testing etc… they’re getting their value for money.
The testing is just part of the overall time I’m on site.

I send them a total invoice at the end of each week for days/ hours worked.

pc1966 · Mar 7, 2023

littlespark said:
While I’m on site, I’m still doing the odd repair job, prepping for other testing etc… they’re getting their value for money.
The testing is just part of the overall time I’m on site.

I send them a total invoice at the end of each week for days/ hours worked.

That sounds like a good way of working for both parties.

plugsandsparks · Mar 7, 2023

Thats they way i do it for my regulars, largely fix stuff as i am going along, obvious things like labels, holes in DB, optimistic breakers, lol, broken accessories. etc

marconi · Mar 7, 2023

littlespark said:
Started with one of the holiday cottages today… and a handful of C3’s already. Nothing too serious.

Non standard set up. 2 cottages adjacent to each. Supplies come from one of the big DBs from the main house. Big DB also feeds public toilets.

From photo you can see SWA coming from main DB into isolator+mcb on right, through meter, for simple monitoring, then into cottage DB

You can get a bus through the holes the tails go through.

Underfloor heating in both cottages is fed from boiler for toilets… so that sw/fuse is live when cottage is isolated, and also on a different phase.

I believe (and will check next week when I do other cottage) that the hard wired smoke detectors are supplied from this cottage, but also feed the ones next door. Which means next door has all 3 phases present.

View attachment 106624

Some less experienced folk will learn much from how you approached this job. You're a top man.

littlespark · Mar 9, 2023

Started on the cafe this morning… mapping circuits rather than testing… but this is the start of the interesting stuff.

Original 3ph fuse board with HRC cartridge fuses. Later added modern CU with RCD mainswitch, monitoring meter again.

Mix of metal conduit, plastic conduit, surface T&E and MICC…. Sometimes within the same circuit!

Joints in the trunking… including a 100A Henley block to supply the newer CU.

Oversized fuses for size of cable…. All lights on one fuse….

And I’m puzzled about the cable supplying the 3ph cooker. (3 separate fuses, I believe only single phase loads within the cooker itself, however)
The cable isn’t SWA. It’s 5 core (numbered on black) with a braided outer and transparent plastic sheath. I should have taken a better photo.
Come across it before on agricultural for grain dryer motor controls etc.

Isolated upstream in workshop, 63A MEM switch fuse complete with asbestos flash pads.

MJPD29 · Mar 9, 2023

littlespark said:
Started on the cafe this morning… mapping circuits rather than testing… but this is the start of the interesting stuff.

Original 3ph fuse board with HRC cartridge fuses. Later added modern CU with RCD mainswitch, monitoring meter again.

Mix of metal conduit, plastic conduit, surface T&E and MICC…. Sometimes within the same circuit!

Joints in the trunking… including a 100A Henley block to supply the newer CU.

Oversized fuses for size of cable…. All lights on one fuse….

And I’m puzzled about the cable supplying the 3ph cooker. (3 separate fuses, I believe only single phase loads within the cooker itself, however)
The cable isn’t SWA. It’s 5 core (numbered on black) with a braided outer and transparent plastic sheath. I should have taken a better photo.
Come across it before on agricultural for grain dryer motor controls etc.

Isolated upstream in workshop, 63A MEM switch fuse complete with asbestos flash pads.

View attachment 106695

Is cooker cable SY possibly?

littlespark · Mar 9, 2023

MJPD29 said:
Is cooker cable SY possibly?

It’s possible. I should have taken a better photo.

They have the same stuff running between halfway along the basement of main house and an outside boiler room… but in 7 core 1.5mm
2 runs of at least 50m between boiler controls in both locations.

littlespark · Mar 13, 2023

Better photos of the mystery cable. 5 cores. (That I can see) and the braided cable.

Fairly recent addition as cores use brown/grey/blue tape as identification whereas some older cables using red/yellow/blue/black

littlespark · Mar 13, 2023

To those following this thread....

I'm having a mare already. Slight disagreement between myself and the old boy caretaker about what i'm coding the EICR. (he used to be a spark back in the 80's i think, and has done some of the maintenance before he got too old)

Ill not divulge straight away, but simply ask you guys to convince me im not going soft.

Taking the cafe as an example. What would you code, remembering all the large metallic appliances. Kitchen staff, but members of the general public in the seating area in the vicinity of sockets and heaters.

Old circuits are still on BS88 fuses.
Every light on the same fuse.
The 3 phase oven on 3 separate fuses. (although only single phase loads. Loss of one phase isn't going to cause massive problems)

The other distribution boards are much the same.... old bs88's in some places... fuse wire in others.
Some "upgraded" to circuit breakers, but there are very few RCD's across the whole site.... even in the modernised areas.

I don't want to come across as touting for work, but at what point do you have to say, look, this is unacceptable these days.... especially with public being able to access parts of it.

westward10 · Mar 13, 2023

You really ought to know that is SY cable.
The fact the public have access to xyz isn't really relevant.
Separate fuses for a three phase oven is fine in fact it would be fine for the majority of circuits.

plugsandsparks · Mar 13, 2023

Well FWIW, if its all the correct vintage (which it probably is), not much you can do but code it strictly to BS7671. I have come across similar installs and wrote a separate report on my recommendations, because the Amtech S/W i use is messy when it comes to making a case for upgrade. Last job i recommended RCBOs to all sockets based on, blah, blah and i was pleasantly surprised when they agreed.

Flanders · Mar 13, 2023

Nothing wrong with bs 88 fuses as long as they are rated correctly for the cable size. Code 3 for the sockets if they are not RCD protected . Could push to a code 2 if you believe they are being used outdoors. . Why do you think the metal appliance are an issue.

westward10 · Mar 13, 2023

littlespark said:
Started with one of the holiday cottages today… and a handful of C3’s already. Nothing too serious.

Non standard set up. 2 cottages adjacent to each. Supplies come from one of the big DBs from the main house. Big DB also feeds public toilets.

From photo you can see SWA coming from main DB into isolator+mcb on right, through meter, for simple monitoring, then into cottage DB

You can get a bus through the holes the tails go through.

Underfloor heating in both cottages is fed from boiler for toilets… so that sw/fuse is live when cottage is isolated, and also on a different phase.

I believe (and will check next week when I do other cottage) that the hard wired smoke detectors are supplied from this cottage, but also feed the ones next door. Which means next door has all 3 phases present.

View attachment 106624

It doesn't matter that there are separate phases it is not a departure.

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