What are your thoughts on people wanting to be ultra neat when wiring inside boards?

rewireIT · Jul 5, 2023

I get wanting to do a good job but does being super neat inside a board really make it a better job?

I don't see any advantage to it aside from aesthetics and if it's something that's not seen then....what's the point in obsessing over how neat it all looks?

To me it's a bit like a kitchen fitter making sure all the feet on his cabinets point the same way even though plinth is going on and covering them all up.

What do you's reckon?

7029 dave · Jul 8, 2023

Neatness shows pride and good workmanship in your work. Fault finding a rats nest is a pain in the arse especially on RFC okay the lives are easy but trying to find the legs on N and E when you cant even see the buts of the cable and nothing follows consiquecaly

SparkySy · Jul 8, 2023

cliffed said:
To be fair that DB/CU looks tight as hell

It was very tight and too small! I have quoted to go back and rip it out put a bigger all RCBO board in!

ipf · Jul 8, 2023

They should make 'untidy' a C2.....that'd teach 'em.

Takes me back to wiping a perfectly good armoured, lead multicore as an apprentice and being patted on the head and told to do it again.

rewireIT · Jul 8, 2023

7029 dave said:
Neatness shows pride and good workmanship in your work. Fault finding a rats nest is a pain in the arse especially on RFC okay the lives are easy but trying to find the legs on N and E when you cant even see the buts of the cable and nothing follows consiquecaly

I'm on about being ultra neat though - is there any real difference between 'generally pretty tidy' and 'every single wire is the exact same length and curvature into the termination, i've cable tied all the earths and neutrals together (a hindrance imo)' ?

Is one 'better' than the other? Because i see people slagging work that is completely fine it just doesn't look as pretty.

ferg · Jul 8, 2023

Think how you feel when you take the cover off a board and it's lovely and neat inside.
Compare that to how you feel when it's a rats nest.

I don't really have the time, inclination or ability to make every board look like it belongs on Instagram but I like to think I make a bit of an effort.

I think as long as it's neat and tidy and I've done the best with what I have then it's good enough.

Like it or not the next person in the board will judge your ability based on what they see.

SparkySy · Jul 8, 2023

Agree with @ferg not all mine are Instagram perfect but you will be able to see which neutral and earth are the ones for each circuit and will have plenty space for testing and additional cables/circuits!
And yes the next bloke who looks in there will judge just as we all do!

nicebutdim · Jul 8, 2023

rewireIT said:
I'm on about being ultra neat though - is there any real difference between 'generally pretty tidy' and 'every single wire is the exact same length and curvature into the termination, i've cable tied all the earths and neutrals together (a hindrance imo)' ?

Is one 'better' than the other? Because i see people slagging work that is completely fine it just doesn't look as pretty.

If you're spending time on instagram, chances are most comments will be from people viewing the installation from an entirely aesthetic perspective and many will have no idea what the pretty colours do. Instagram isn't real life and from the little I know about it, the place doesn't even approach real life.

I've never seen anyone cable tie earths together (why would they?) and the only cable tying of neutrals I've seen has been RCBO flyleads which none of us really know how to dress neatly, while maintaining ease of access and identification. The options with neutral flyleads are stark: cable tie, cut short and potentially unable to be moved or do the best you can. If people care for adulation on social media, chances are they're going to make less than pragmatic choices.

This place isn't instagram and, thankfully, represents a wide range of opinions.

nicebutdim · Jul 8, 2023

I do occasioinally see earths and neutrals cable tied in 3 phase boards and that doesn't present any real hindrance - plenty of space to snip them and plenty of space to add or remove cables. What I do hate is people who don't loom incoming circuits when wired in PVC singles - nothing worse than removing a circuit and not being 100% certain the correct earth & neutral are being removed, especially after tracing back some distance through trunking. That sort of laziness is unacceptable, when huge sums of money are involved if the wrong conductor is removed. Perhaps if the people who do this found themselves in the shoes of those who follow behind, they'd be inclined to amend their work ethic - especially when alternative means of verification are nigh on impossible.

rewireIT · Jul 8, 2023

ferg said:
Like it or not the next person in the board will judge your ability based on what they see.

Why does that matter? Every tradesman ever calls the work of others rough even when it's not.

And again let's keep in mind i'm not saying there's neat then there's rats nest, i'm talking about what's wrong with it being in between - everything identifiable and done correctly but not necessarily good to look at.

rewireIT · Jul 8, 2023

nicebutdim said:
I do occasioinally see earths and neutrals cable tied in 3 phase boards and that doesn't present any real hindrance - plenty of space to snip them and plenty of space to add or remove cables. What I do hate is people who don't loom incoming circuits when wired in PVC singles - nothing worse than removing a circuit and not being 100% certain the correct earth & neutral are being removed, especially after tracing back some distance through trunking. That sort of laziness is unacceptable, when huge sums of money are involved if the wrong conductor is removed. Perhaps if the people who do this found themselves in the shoes of those who follow behind, they'd be inclined to amend their work ethic - especially when alternative means of verification are nigh on impossible.

What do you mean by loom?

nicebutdim · Jul 8, 2023

rewireIT said:
What do you mean by loom?

In the context of my post about wiring I'd honestly thought this would be quite apparent.

Individual conductors in each circuit grouped together for ease of identification. Often this is in the form of simple, but effective taping at regular intervals - perhaps every metre or so. Even 2"x2" trunking can be difficult to trace cables in and you don't want to think about tracing a circuit in large, busy trunking if it isn't easy to follow.

Little things can make a huge difference to people who follow behind. It is for this reason that many posts in this thread are less than forgiving of untidy work. There's a level of attention to detail that goes beyond what is necessary, but I'm firmly of the belief that taking pride in turning out fairly neat work is important in this industry.

I'd recommend looking at section 514 of BS7671 - specifically 514.1.2 Not only should we take care to ensure our work can easily be followed by other electricians, we're bound to do so by regulation.

rewireIT · Jul 8, 2023

nicebutdim said:
In the context of my post about wiring I'd honestly thought this would be quite apparent.

Individual conductors in each circuit grouped together for ease of identification. Often this is in the form of simple, but effective taping at regular intervals - perhaps every metre or so. Even 2"x2" trunking can be difficult to trace cables in and you don't want to think about tracing a circuit in large, busy trunking if it isn't easy to follow.

Little things can make a huge difference to people who follow behind. It is for this reason that many posts in this thread are less than forgiving of untidy work. There's a level of attention to detail that goes beyond what is necessary, but I'm firmly of the belief that taking pride in turning out fairly neat work is important in this industry.

I'd recommend looking at section 514 of BS7671 - specifically 514.1.2 Not only should we take care to ensure our work can easily be followed by other electricians, we're bound to do so by regulation.

Ah right just never heard it called loom.

So you're talking about physically taping them together?

nicebutdim · Jul 8, 2023

rewireIT said:
So you're talking about physically taping them together?

That's precisely what I stated.

rewireIT · Jul 8, 2023

So what i'm talking about is, is one of these 'better' than the other because one looks much neater?

Does straightening all the conductors and perfectly folding them in mean you've got more pride in your work or that it's a better install?

I think the RCBO board is waaaay overkill in how it's been made to look considering it spends its life unseen. It's also weird that someone would go to that trouble of being that neat but then use the wrong size sleeving.