Solutions for LED inrush current

Greg Hinksman · Jul 25, 2023

I am upgrading garage lighting. I have installed 12 40W batten lights (cheap Amazon variety - don’t have specs).

6A breaker in Garage consumer panel is tripping on inrush current. House consumer panel 32A breaker for garage is also tripping occasionally. Both are type B. No surprises so far.

Garage consumer panel has old style integrated wylex plug-in breakers (2-way - 32A for sockets & 6A for lighting). Cannot seem to find type-c or type-d plug-in replacements. Does anyone know where to find them - or if they even exist?

Probably need to change house consumer panel breaker to type-c? Am slightly surprised 32A breaker is tripping.

Does anyone know of any in-line delay-on module that can be wired into the lighting so I can stagger the lights on in banks. I can easily divide the lights into 3 banks that come on 1 sec after each other. I’d like to avoid having to switch/wire each bank separately.

Many thanks.

Avo Mk8 · Jul 25, 2023

Pity the batten lights don't have thermistor/NTC resistor inrush current limiting in them!
Eg: Inrush Current Protection for LED Lighting Retrofits | Ametherm - https://www.ametherm.com/blog/inrush-current/inrush-current-protection-led-lighting-retrofits/

This has quite a high current rating, but might do the job?

https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2860410.pdf

There may be other units around more suitable.

Avo Mk8 · Jul 25, 2023

I discovered MeanWell have published their suggested number of power supplies/lights that can be fed with and without their current limiting unit ICL-16. It looks like their unit should do the job. If it were me, I'd give it a try!
PS There is a Wylex 10A breaker for your garage unit, but I don't think there were type C or D of that style. Could be wrong!

[ElectriciansForums.net] Solutions for LED inrush current

Greg Hinksman · Jul 26, 2023

Thanks a lot for the info.

That device is exactly what I am after - if it limits the current appropriately.

From what I read, it limits inrush current to 16A - which is more than 6, but perhaps short enough duration to make a difference.

Perhaps that and a 10A breaker, might be enough to make it over the line.

MJPD29 · Jul 26, 2023

You’ll need to check you can still meet zs requirements for ads when changing from a b type to c type.

Avo Mk8 · Jul 26, 2023

Greg - this contains some relevant info if you are interested:

https://www.beama.org.uk/static/b40aa7b9-f1c4-487a-a8f172067978517b/BEAMA-Guide-to-Circuit-breaker-Selection-for-LED-Lighting.pdf

Hopefully it will not be necessary for you to change any breaker to type c.

The above BEMA document contains a recommendation (I was unaware of):

Greg Hinksman · Jul 29, 2023

Thanks again for all the info.

Do you think this inrush current limiter can be wired directly after the breaker - or do you think it needs to be downstream of the switch?

Avo Mk8 · Jul 29, 2023

Greg Hinksman said:
Thanks again for all the info.

Do you think this inrush current limiter can be wired directly after the breaker - or do you think it needs to be downstream of the switch?

I don't think it matters. The product spec. shows it wired after the breaker, but that's for their SMPS example.
The quiescent current is given as 1.5W, so putting it after the switch might save a few pennies a year!
Personally I thought the long plastic box form factor version might be easier to accommodate somewhere in the garage, but you could put the DIN version in the CU if there's room.

Greg Hinksman · Jul 29, 2023

Avo Mk8 said:
I don't think it matters. The product spec. shows it wired after the breaker, but that's for their SMPS example.
The quiescent current is given as 1.5W, so putting it after the switch might save a few pennies a year!
Personally I thought the long plastic box form factor version might be easier to accommodate somewhere in the garage, but you could put the DIN version in the CU if there's room.

Awesome. Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
I’ll wire it in the garage, on the main feed for all the lights (Inc outdoor floods which are PIR switched LEDs).
That way if everything comes on at once (say, resetting a breaker in CU), it will limit inrush on all transformers - floods, interior lights, cameras, etc.

Avo Mk8 · Jul 29, 2023

Greg Hinksman said:
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
I’ll wire it in the garage, on the main feed for all the lights (Inc outdoor floods which are PIR switched LEDs).
That way if everything comes on at once (say, resetting a breaker in CU), it will limit inrush on all transformers - floods, interior lights, cameras, etc.

Just for fun

I worked out that on the lights main feed it will consume 1.31 kW hours of electricity in a year, so about 40p per annum!!
note to self - must get a life

Good luck with the installation - I hope that thing works - do let us know the outcome!

Greg Hinksman · Jul 31, 2023

Avo Mk8 said:
do let us know the outcome!

Works like a charm!
All lights are connected & no more breaker trips.

The only annoyance is that the inline version doesn’t have provision for earth termination, so have to do that separately, but otherwise, it does exactly what I needed.

Thanks again, very much @Avo Mk8

pc1966 · Jul 31, 2023

Avo Mk8 said:
This has quite a high current rating, but might do the job?

https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2860410.pdf
There may be other units around more suitable.

What a great ready-made device!

I have made similar things to keep transformer-input units from burning out relays: an NTC thermistor as inrush suppression and then a zero-crossing SSR to bypass it once established, so it cools for the next cycle...

Greg Hinksman · Aug 3, 2023

Greg Hinksman said:
Works like a charm!
All lights are connected & no more breaker trips.

Spoke too soon
Seems that after a number of switches the (10A garage) breaker trips.

Most times, when the lights switch on, the breaker makes a noise (but doesn’t trip). After enough of these, it goes.

I guess I could put a larger breaker. (At some point, probably replace garage CP and put a C-type breaker. )

Avo Mk8 · Aug 3, 2023

Greg Hinksman said:
Spoke too soon
Seems that after a number of switches the (10A garage) breaker trips.

Most times, when the lights switch on, the breaker makes a noise (but doesn’t trip). After enough of these, it goes.

I guess I could put a larger breaker. (At some point, probably replace garage CP and put a C-type breaker. )

Sorry to hear that

What's the cable size of the lighting circuit, and is it clipped direct, and are there any other accessories such as junction boxes (eg rated at 10A) on the circuit?
Since the surge device limits current to 16A, just wondering if a 16A type B might be a possible solution? Might have to upgrade the light switch to 20A - MK do one.
Could be scuppered by what the panel MI's say about protection?

Greg Hinksman · Aug 4, 2023

Avo Mk8 said:
Sorry to hear that
What's the cable size of the lighting circuit, and is it clipped direct, and are there any other accessories such as junction boxes (eg rated at 10A) on the circuit?
Since the surge device limits current to 16A, just wondering if a 16A type B might be a possible solution? Might have to upgrade the light switch to 20A - MK do one.
Could be scuppered by what the panel MI's say about protection?

Cable is all 1.5mm^2
Wago boxes are all 20A or 40A. Switches are motion sensing - rated nowhere near 20A.

I will try a 16A breaker to see if that resolves it - at least until I replace the CP.
Otherwise I will need to replace CP now, in order to use a C-type breaker. I was trying to avoid replacing CP right now because I’m sure I will need to make modifications when the inevitable car charging port needs to be installed.

davesparks · Aug 4, 2023

Greg Hinksman said:
Cable is all 1.5mm^2
Wago boxes are all 20A or 40A. Switches are motion sensing - rated nowhere near 20A.

I will try a 16A breaker to see if that resolves it - at least until I replace the CP.
Otherwise I will need to replace CP now, in order to use a C-type breaker. I was trying to avoid replacing CP right now because I’m sure I will need to make modifications when the inevitable car charging port needs to be installed.

You can't just swap in a C type MCB or even a higher rated one.
You need to confirm that it is safe to do this, including checking that the earth fault loop impedance is low enough to be safe with a different MCB.

If the switches are not suitably rated for these changes they may also need to be replaced.

I suspect that this line from your opening post:

Greg Hinksman said:
I have installed 12 40W batten lights (cheap Amazon variety - don’t have specs)

Is at the root of your problems.

Greg Hinksman · Sep 8, 2023

Avo Mk8 said:
Sorry to hear that
What's the cable size of the lighting circuit, and is it clipped direct, and are there any other accessories such as junction boxes (eg rated at 10A) on the circuit?
Since the surge device limits current to 16A, just wondering if a 16A type B might be a possible solution? Might have to upgrade the light switch to 20A - MK do one.
Could be scuppered by what the panel MI's say about protection?

With 16A breaker, no more trips.
Will upgrade CP to use a smaller but slower breaker.

Solutions for LED inrush current

Greg Hinksman

Avo Mk8

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Avo Mk8

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Greg Hinksman

MJPD29

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Avo Mk8

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Greg Hinksman

Avo Mk8

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Greg Hinksman

Avo Mk8

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Greg Hinksman

pc1966

Greg Hinksman

Avo Mk8

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Greg Hinksman

davesparks

Greg Hinksman

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