Italian installation in u.k?

brs73 · Aug 17, 2011

hello there.
i've recieved a pir that was carried out by another electrician.
i havent seen the installation myself but i have to meet the client next week to tell him whats required and to give a quote.
apparently the entire install is done to italian standards ie italian DB, cable colours (white,grey,black,blue,red,brown), etc
my initial reaction is to rewire to british standards but the client wants to avoid this.
i want to rectify all items on the pir,change the DB and sleeve any non standard colour cables.
i havent come across this before but im thinking that if all cables are id'd correctly and all test results are fine than this is the right way to go about it,
i've attached the pir.
any thoughts guys
thanks in advance
BRS73

[ElectriciansForums.net] Italian installation in u.k?

Deleted member 26818 · Aug 17, 2011

Unfortunately the pictures are too small to be read.

mogga · Aug 17, 2011

MMMM BS numbers for cables springs to mind Are the cables marked with ratings for insullation ect A quick phonecall to NICEIC ect should help assist in your recomendations
Why hasnt he got the contractor who did PIR to do the work?
If its done with italian wiring and accesories ect id also question the cable routing and zoning
remember its YOUR BUM on the line if anything should happen not the clients YOUR the electrician,qualified person not him

brs73 · Aug 17, 2011

its an interesting one
i shall speak to elecsa in the morning
i think you'd have the same problem with routing and zoning on any installation that you havent personally wired yourself yet we would still pass it off as satisfactory on a pir.
from reading the pir i think that the accesories must be british as there is no mention of non standard being used, also this would obviously be impractical
i dont know what happened to the previous electrician.
he possibly condemned it and thats why the client is looking elsewhere?? who knows,
i shall find out next week.
anyways
thanks for your input

brs73 · Aug 17, 2011

spinlondon said:
Unfortunately the pictures are too small to be read.

sorry about that
i havent uploaded pics (succesfully!) before!!

Des 56 · Aug 17, 2011

brs73 said:
hello there.

apparently the entire install is done to italian standards

i want to rectify all items on the pir,change the DB and sleeve any non standard colour cables.

i havent come across this before but im thinking that if all cables are id'd correctly and all test results are fine than this is the right way to go about it,

any thoughts guys

BRS73

Your plan seems sound,have a crack at it I say.
There will be few if any who have had to deal with your current project so it will be make do and mend

Draig Coch · Aug 17, 2011

Hi can I suggest before you ring that you check the writing on the cables. They will (famous last words) be manufactured to a harmonised standard. There should be written on there the HAR reference or an EN number telling you to which standard the cable complies. Elecsa will need this info to help you out. You might want to google it yourself anyway.

If the cable is OK then the installation is non conforming to the regs due to the colours being wrong. Its up to you to say if this is a class Type 2 or 4 issue based on what you find. You may wish to make it compliant by identifying L & N & E with tape. I'd say thats what would be my recommendation as you have to think about the guy coming after you.

Engineer54 · Aug 18, 2011

Draig Coch said:
If the cable is OK then the installation is non conforming to the regs due to the colours being wrong. Its up to you to say if this is a class Type 2 or 4 issue based on what you find. You may wish to make it compliant by identifying L & N & E with tape. I'd say thats what would be my recommendation as you have to think about the guy coming after you.

Tape?? ...I'm sure you meant to say Sleeving, ....Right??

ban-all-sheds · Aug 20, 2011

Unless you can find a legal requirement for the installation to comply with BS7671 then there's no way you can force the client to do anything.

He (understandably) doesn't want it rewired - will he want to pay you to go around sleeving up every termination?

And why should he? What's in it for him?

malcolmsanford · Aug 20, 2011

In all honesty you can only really code the non conformity of colours a code 4 as per reg 514.4.4, and the client as no reason to change it if he so wishes.

If the cable is not of BS or harmonized standard then again it could be a code 4 as per reg 511.1. But to have a case for it to be re-wired there must be obvious signs of damage or heat damage to it.

gaulty · Aug 20, 2011

If he doesn't want all switches etc resleeved make sure you right it in your report and leave it as a code 4 but obviously any work you carry out ie changing the DB and any faulty switches, sockets etc change the sleeving to harmonised colours. If it was me and client willing to pay i would prefer to do my own report and test BEFORE the board got changed and compare results etc rather than go on what someone else (who may be a cowboy) written. I'd do the job but be vigilant.

Engineer54 · Aug 20, 2011

We keep hearing on the Forum about French, Spanish, S African and others, about British sparks going over to these countries and wiring up houses etc, to UK Reg's, and how nothing complies to those countries electrical wiring and regulations, and will be ultimately condemned and need to be ripped out and re-installed appropriately.

Now to my way of thinking, if our standards of wiring and installation methods don't apply in these countries, then theirs cannot comply with ours surely?? Or is commonsense not applicable here?? Surely this is exactly the same Situation that the OP describes. So Why not let the LABC go in and inspect the installation and make a judgement call. Contacting a scheme provider is pointless really, they have no authority at all, it's the LABC that has that power!!!

Draig Coch · Aug 20, 2011

The idea has been from the 15th edition is to eventually bring all europe in line so the scenario you outline shouldn't happen. I expect there will always be differences but not that much to condemn work.

BS 7671 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Engineer54 · Aug 20, 2011

Draig Coch said:
The idea has been from the 15th edition is to eventually bring all europe in line so the scenario you outline shouldn't happen. I expect there will always be differences but not that much to condemn work.

BS 7671 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You obviously have no idea then, as to other countries wiring and protection regulations. You can safely say, you are NOT going to see any such harmonisation to the level you describe, ....in yours, or your children's lifetime!!! ... And you can honestly take that one to the bank!!!

Ask any of the sparks here, that live and work in these so called harmonised countries, and just ask them about harmonised conductor colours, and see what there responses are!! You'll find that it's only the daft UK that is giving up it's proven and reliable systems, and getting nothing in return from the other EU countries!!!

Draig Coch · Aug 20, 2011

Wow you're right. We should condemn installations because the colours are different.

Italian installation in u.k?

brs73

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Deleted member 26818

mogga

brs73

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brs73

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Des 56

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Draig Coch

Engineer54

ban-all-sheds

malcolmsanford

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gaulty

Engineer54

Draig Coch

Engineer54

Draig Coch

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