Italian installation in u.k?

[brs73]

If he doesn't want all switches etc resleeved make sure you right it in your report and leave it as a code 4 but obviously any work you carry out ie changing the DB and any faulty switches, sockets etc change the sleeving to harmonised colours. If it was me and client willing to pay i would prefer to do my own report and test BEFORE the board got changed and compare results etc rather than go on what someone else (who may be a cowboy) written. I'd do the job but be vigilant.

From looking at the pir it seems that the previous electrician was quite thorough and the pir was well done,
unlike some that ive seen where the 'electrician' has probably taken around 30 mins max to carry out the pir.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You'll find that it's only the daft UK that is giving up it's proven and reliable systems, and getting nothing in return from the other EU countries!!!

The UK was the ONLY country in Europe which had not already harmonised its wiring colours in accordance with HD 324: 1976 9 and HDs 3, 4, 16.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We keep hearing on the Forum about French, Spanish, S African and others, about British sparks going over to these countries and wiring up houses etc, to UK Reg's, and how nothing complies to those countries electrical wiring and regulations, and will be ultimately condemned and need to be ripped out and re-installed appropriately.

That could only happen if there were statutory requirements in those countries to comply with their wiring regulations, or standards for accessories etc, and/or for electricians to hold national qualifications or registrations.

Now to my way of thinking, if our standards of wiring and installation methods don't apply in these countries, then theirs cannot comply with ours surely??

Comply with what?

BS 7671?

No - of course not. But there is no statutory requirement in this country to comply with that, so saying non-compliance is not allowed is a bit of a non-starter.

Or is commonsense not applicable here??

I thought so, until I started reading your posts... :wink5:

Surely this is exactly the same Situation that the OP describes. So Why not let the LABC go in and inspect the installation and make a judgement call.

Since Approved Document P explicitly allows working to Italian regulations as a way to comply with P1 that's going to be another non-starter...

 

[Engineer54]

The UK was the ONLY country in Europe which had not already harmonised its wiring colours in accordance with HD 324: 1976 9 and HDs 3, 4, 16.

Seems you don't bother to read what the forum members that live and work in those EU countries have to say about those so-called harmonised cable colours. Because as far as they are conserned ....there isn't any harmonisation of colours!!!

 

[Engineer54]

That could only happen if there were statutory requirements in those countries to comply with their wiring regulations, or standards for accessories etc, and/or for electricians to hold national qualifications or registrations.

You clearly have no idea about the French and there bureaucracy. They are well known or making up there own rules and applying them...


Comply with what?

BS 7671?

No - of course not. But there is no statutory requirement in this country to comply with that, so saying non-compliance is not allowed is a bit of a non-starter.

Maybe not, but there are plenty of Statutory Standards, Codes of Practice and the like, that refer to BS7671 for compliance, that gives 7671 a bit more clout than you assume. It has also been used successfully to secure judgements in county courts. So don't run too far away with the idea that it's not a Statutory Standard, it can very easily turn round and bite you, ....Hard!!



I thought so, until I started reading your posts... :wink5:


Really, ....You so need to go back and read some of your own posts before knocking others... :smiley2: :wink5:


Since Approved Document P explicitly allows working to Italian regulations as a way to comply with P1 that's going to be another non-starter

Really?? perhaps you can point that out to us!! Does it also ''explicitly'' mention France, Spain, and all the other countries of Europe?? I would still say ...Let the LABC decide if the installation is acceptable or not!!!
I can tell you now, that i know of quite a few aspects of these countries wiring systems that wouldn't come close to being acceptable in the UK...... [/QUOTE]


I personally think there are quite a few short comings with BS7671, but that has nothing to do with anything in this instance!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You clearly have no idea about the French and there bureaucracy. They are well known or making up there own rules and applying them...

France has its own national wiring regulations, and requires electricians to hold national qualifications and be officially registered.

I would have thought that most electricians would find that admirable, given the way so many of them complain about the lax standard of qualifications and registrations here.

Maybe not, but there are plenty of Statutory Standards, Codes of Practice and the like, that refer to BS7671 for compliance, that gives 7671 a bit more clout than you assume. It has also been used successfully to secure judgements in county courts. So don't run too far away with the idea that it's not a Statutory Standard, it can very easily turn round and bite you, ....Hard!!

Do any of those CoPs etc apply to dwellings? (Which I assume this is, as you mentioned Building Control - I couldn't read the scanned images). i.e. not places of work, or premises subject to licensing, Mines and Quarries legislation etc?

Have any of the prosecutions where BS 7671 was "used" been over events which happened because BS 7671 was not followed but standards of equivalent integrity from another country were?

What I'm getting at is that you aren't going to be gripping the rail unless something had gone -----up, and that is going to be because what you did would not have complied with anything.

Can you find me one example where somebody was prosecuted for not complying with BS 7671 when nothing else had gone wrong?

Can you find me one example of a prosecution where the work was so dodgy that it would not have complied with BS 7671 but did comply with whatever standard the electrician certified to?

Really?? perhaps you can point that out to us!!

OK - it's in Section 0 - General Guidance, on p7

(with my emphasis)

0.2 A way of satisfying the fundamental
principles would be to follow:
a. the technical rules described in the body
of BS 7671:2001 as amended or in an
equivalent standard approved by a member
of the EEA

Does it also ''explicitly'' mention France, Spain, and all the other countries of Europe??

This is the list of countries in the EEA:

Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Republic of Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom

I would still say ...Let the LABC decide if the installation is acceptable or not!!!

They are seriously going to struggle to say that doing what it says in Approved Document P is unacceptable.

I can tell you now, that i know of quite a few aspects of these countries wiring systems that wouldn't come close to being acceptable in the UK......

Not according to the Secretary of State.

You may not like that, but is a fact.

Unless you can find a statutory requirement for the installation in question to comply with BS 7671 there is nothing that anybody can do to make the owner comply, there are no grounds on which the installation can be "failed", and there is SFA that the LABC can or would try to do about it.

And that's all there is to it.

 

[Engineer54]

This is all now too silly for words!!!