Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade.

baldsparkies · Jun 13, 2013

Since the introduction of part P I have observed with complete dismay an influx of under qualified, so called electricians.
The country, like others, is struggling through a recession.
Many of the bigger electrical contractors are going under.
Many other types of trade are also suffering.
The result is a huge group of under qualified x employees, with a redundancy wedge in there back pockets.
They come from many backgrounds, and the rich and easy pickings of a once respected trade, draws them like moths to a flame.
All they need is to buy a cheap van and set themselves up as one man bands.
A quick wonder course, and a very basic assesment by a scheme provider gives them a nice label to stick on that van.
The general public have no idea about the individuals experience, qualifications, or level of competants.
A defined scope person can take full advantage of people, there homes, even commercial work, with no more than there membership into the scheme, and a little BS.
And the current system with its money generating schemes just makes the situation worse.
In all of 40 years in the trade. I have NEVER seen so many electricians vans on the roads of Britain.
The only sanity amongst this is the JIB scheme. Offering recognition and identification of your level of experience and qualifications.
But how many people will know about, or ask to see such a card ??
Our industry is a mess.
Part P and the scheme providers have I.M.H.O. done little to clean up our industry.
In fact the cash cow they have created has actually left the whole sorry situation in a real mess.
As I aproach retirement. I feel so very sad, that the name Qualified Electrican stands for very little these days.
Because those who are qualified, are being plowed under by non competant people.
Who have been allowed to jump on the band wagon, for nothing more than make a quick buck.
Sad !! Very very sad.:sad_smile:

Knobhead · Jun 14, 2013

oldtimer said:
Yep its the similar in Scotland but I look at England with dismay and hope we never go the same way thing is in England the genie is out of the bottle

OT, I look at the entire electrical industry and despair.

Being retired it makes no odds to me now. I just get wound up about everything!

Later in the year I’ve got to have EICR done on my place. I feel sorry for the poor schmuck that gets it to do.

Octopus · Jun 14, 2013

Tony said:
OT, I look at the entire electrical industry and despair.

Being retired it makes no odds to me now. I just get wound up about everything!

Later in the year I’ve got to have EICR done on my place. I feel sorry for the poor schmuck that gets it to do.

Why don't you do it?

Guest55 · Jun 14, 2013

Tony said:
Later in the year I’ve got to have EICR done on my place. I feel sorry for the poor schmuck that gets it to do.

i'll do it !

UNG · Jun 14, 2013

oldtimer said:
We could ask another question here where do the schemes get off by trying to make us justify ourselves to them plus there is no going back they have flooded the trade with quick trained people who on paper are qualified but are on here via their smart phone posting HELP!!!!!! the RCD or the CU or the Earthing threads.

As for Northern Ireland yet again someone is flying an idea so lets trial it in NI a bit like Thatcher when she said roll out the Poll Tax in Scotland and see how it goes and that was only because her civil servants were saying this just aint going to work.

If a licence scheme was brought in there would be many arguments as to where the level or levels for a graded system would be set this would upset some but lifting the standards and level of training back to somewhere sensible must be part of the object of such a licence if it was brought in

Labours part p is something akin to the tories poll tax ill thought out and not fit for purpose and it's about time it was put out to grass with all the schemes and these pathetic training companies

SPARTYKUS · Jun 14, 2013

Never go, theres too much face to loose & too much money being made. Here to stay I think.

UNG · Jun 14, 2013

SPARTYKUS said:
Never go, there's too much face to loose & too much money being made. Here to stay I think.

Given that most of these schemes are run by commercial managers with little or no electrical knowledge who have more face than Big Ben

You could be right !!

Knobhead · Jun 14, 2013

Murdoch said:
Why don't you do it?

Insurance.

They want a scam member …………………

Read in to that what you will, but god help the bloody idiot that walks through my door.

Biff, I’d be more than happy for you to do it, but it has to be one on their list. I could rag doll you in person!

Knobhead · Jun 14, 2013

SPARTYKUS said:
Never go, theres too much face to loose & too much money being made. Here to stay I think.

Money being the bottom line.

Callous it may be:
A few more PM’s kids killed may change things.

Guest55 · Jun 14, 2013

rag doll me ???
whats that lol ?

sounds like fighting talk ;-)

UNG · Jun 14, 2013

Tony said:
Insurance.

They want a scam member …………………

Read in to that what you will, but god help the bloody idiot that walks through my door.

Talk to them a lot of these insurance companies back down done work on many occasions where I produced qualifications to prove I was qualified to do the work while not being a member of their preferred scam. Over the years I've found they don't like the confrontation and being questioned about their choice

SPARTYKUS · Jun 14, 2013

UNG said:
Talk to them a lot of these insurance companies back down done work on many occasions where I produced qualifications to prove I was qualified to do the work while not being a member of their preferred scam. Over the years I've found they don't like the confrontation and being questioned about their choice

Yep agree, any time I ever questioned it, it evaporated

GLENNSPARK · Jun 14, 2013

and whilst were on the subject of the industry descending into chaos check out this bucket of shyte I got called out to today:

[ElectriciansForums.net] Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade.

chuffin idiot that did this decided RCDs didn`t feature in his world....so pushed em to one side...
theres a neutral-earth fault on one of the lighting circuits...so i will see to that in the morning
the bloody smokes havn`t been wired rite either....there not linked for a start and i think they`v been crossed n all...i`l get a better look at them in the morning...
first port of call was a Ze...0.11 on a TN-C-S.....so happy enough with that..
then make a start getting that board compliant:

and here`s how he thinks you clip cables:

SPARTYKUS · Jun 14, 2013

Dual RCD BOARD.... welll sort of!

GLENNSPARK · Jun 14, 2013

SPARTYKUS said:
Dual RCD BOARD.... welll sort of!

well...it will be by the time i`m done with it....

Knobhead · Jun 15, 2013

baldsparkies said:
So the year is 1972. You are working for a large engineering company who have there own electrical department.
They take you on as an apprentice and you work along side time served qualified electricians, who are many years your senior.
You attend day release at college and cover a C&G 236 three year course in electrical intallations. At the end of that time you have covered a wealth of practical experience, mainly by men you respect, and know the trade profficiently.
You decide to attend the C certificate course two evenings a week for a further two years and recieve technicians status.
Later in life other courses come up 16th edition, 17th edition, and then theres the 2391.
As a JIB member you apply for and recieve the JIB gold card at approved status.
And then theres your schem providor saying your the qualifying officer.
Your responsibilities through the years have also resulted in a JIB platinum sight managers card.
40 years later, and you your asking yourself what was it all about ??
Because after all that your not a Part P electrician.
Just sharing where and what I am. And wondering even now what makes these guys qualified ???????????

Like you I started as an apprentice in a large company. Quarrying was a rough and ready industry but strict! In addition to the IEE regulations we had the M&Q regulations to contend with.

The JIB played no part in our progression. When I started it was a closed shop, the union was the arbiter in everything.

I served my time with some excellent trades men and teachers. If I needed something for my IETB log book, the company would find it. If it meant going to another works so be it, pack you’re bags and off you went.

Out of you're time you went on shift with “Jim” as you’re partner. He was a HGV electrician.
The engineer said when he handed over my papers to my father “he’s going to start learning now.”
He wasn’t bloody joking, Jim was a lovely guy. Great on the wagon fleet, no help on a plant fault where we were “it” out of the day shift hours.

Did I learn? I had to fast! It was the steepest learning curve ever.
No amount of tutoring by the “old hands” during you’re apprenticeship prepared you for the foul tempered plant manager. I dropped lucky, one of the plant managers took me under his wing to teach me process engineering.

New apprentices were getting few and far between, but I was made an approved trainer a few years out of my time.
The best thing ever, an apprentice makes you think even more. I was then looking for the “phase tests” for their log book.

The company sent me to learn HV cable jointing with the then MEB, HV system management came next.
I got a reputation on the heavy power side of things so got roped in to contract management. Followed by engineering planning.

Being a good faithful servant of the company.
I cleared off in to production management in the food industry. That didn’t last long, despite studying man management I can fall out with myself. I’d got several couples on my shift, on a good week I would be splitting up fights between couples of various types several times.
Sod this I’m off!

That’s how I found myself in the iron industry. There I got hijacked in to R&D and the fun and games started.
I had to learn PLC programming flying by the seat of my pants.
With the able assistance of a production engineer we caused chaos, all with the blessing of the company.
Finally I went back in to engineering planning.

40 years of being blown up, knocked out and getting kicked up the arse.
Do I regret it?
What do you think?

I’m now retired even though I’d rather not be.

Don’t think I’ve ever stopped learning at any point.