Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade. | Page 4 | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade. in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

B

baldsparkies

Since the introduction of part P I have observed with complete dismay an influx of under qualified, so called electricians.
The country, like others, is struggling through a recession.
Many of the bigger electrical contractors are going under.
Many other types of trade are also suffering.
The result is a huge group of under qualified x employees, with a redundancy wedge in there back pockets.
They come from many backgrounds, and the rich and easy pickings of a once respected trade, draws them like moths to a flame.
All they need is to buy a cheap van and set themselves up as one man bands.
A quick wonder course, and a very basic assesment by a scheme provider gives them a nice label to stick on that van.
The general public have no idea about the individuals experience, qualifications, or level of competants.
A defined scope person can take full advantage of people, there homes, even commercial work, with no more than there membership into the scheme, and a little BS.
And the current system with its money generating schemes just makes the situation worse.
In all of 40 years in the trade. I have NEVER seen so many electricians vans on the roads of Britain.
The only sanity amongst this is the JIB scheme. Offering recognition and identification of your level of experience and qualifications.
But how many people will know about, or ask to see such a card ??
Our industry is a mess.
Part P and the scheme providers have I.M.H.O. done little to clean up our industry.
In fact the cash cow they have created has actually left the whole sorry situation in a real mess.
As I aproach retirement. I feel so very sad, that the name Qualified Electrican stands for very little these days.
Because those who are qualified, are being plowed under by non competant people.
Who have been allowed to jump on the band wagon, for nothing more than make a quick buck.
Sad !! Very very sad.:sad_smile:
 
unfortunately so...
but the bottom line here with me is i am paying money to these scams ....so i have a ligitimate right to use the name of the scam of my choosing to try and promote myself to prospective customers and to use it to try to generate interest....
I have paid these s1ags so i have the right to use their name as part of my services.......
so where does he get off then?....
agree completely hate paying it but do. Not sure who you mean but would not want my boiler installed by a bloke pretending to be Gas Safe
 
While many blame Part P there are others who are complicit in this destruction of a once proud and respected industry namely the training centres who are aided and abetted by the City & Guilds who allow people to take courses and exams where the pre requisite is the possession of other trade related C & G qualifications. How can people really be and be allowed to call themselves qualified or fully qualified when all they have passed is a 17th edition and 2391 exam.

Since the introduction of the term competent to replace qualified the quick training schemes have been allowed to redefine what training is needed to be considered an electrician and the part P schemes have colluded in this by accepting what were considered peripheral and additional qualifications to the C&G 2330 etc as the qualifications required along with a wedge of money to be accepted by the scheme

It would be interesting to see some figures on how many people have passed the 2330 exam in the last 5 - 10 years and how many have passed just the 2391 and the 2382 in a training centre

It is difficult to see a way back now unless the City & Guilds clampdown on those sitting the exams so there is a structure put back into training but this would upset the "I want it all and I want it now brigade" who have no time to train properly
and a prime example of this was the old 2391.....
time n time again when you look at the chief examiners reports for this exam its all about wrong terminology, no understanding about choice & setting of OPDs, no concept of earth paths.....ect ect...
clearly many candidates that were being accepted to take this exam were simply not at the level (at that time in their development) to stand any real chance of success.
thats when you get cross and start to realise its all about getting arses on seats....not about the quality of the candidates they turn out or the chances of success of said candidates...
dispicable...it really is....
 
I’m getting fed up with my own voice on this subject.

The only way for this trade to redeem it’s self is by a national register. It would take government intervention to do it.
A reasonable minimum level of qualifications before you are licensed to practice you’re trade.

It would kill the scams off over night. No more selling accreditation, if you’re not on the register you can not trade alone.

It will never happen, there would be a flood of Electrical Trainee’s queuing up at the job centre the next day.
Part “P” was an ill thought out knee jerk. It hasn’t raised standard, it’s another “cash cow” to be milked.

A national register works very well in other countries, why not here? Profiteering could have something to do with it. The scams and training organisation would be greasing politicians pockets to stop it.

The C&G needs a bomb under it along with the IET. Nothing but money grubbing leaches. Maintaining standards? All they are doing is maintaining their living standards.
The standard of examinations has been lowered to suit the pass rate.

Training is a farce as proved by the thread on the AM2 course. A three year old can play “join the dots!”


I’m retired from heavy engineering as are a lot of my counterparts, what is being done to replace us. Train more useless DI’s.
This country needs manufacturing not house building!


I was once proud of this industry, it makes me ashamed now.


If you’re upset with what I say you must be amongst the ones not qualified for a national register.
 
I’m getting fed up with my own voice on this subject.

The only way for this trade to redeem it’s self is by a national register. It would take government intervention to do it.
A reasonable minimum level of qualifications before you are licensed to practice you’re trade.

It would kill the scams off over night. No more selling accreditation, if you’re not on the register you can not trade alone.

It will never happen, there would be a flood of Electrical Trainee’s queuing up at the job centre the next day.
Part “P” was an ill thought out knee jerk. It hasn’t raised standard, it’s another “cash cow” to be milked.

A national register works very well in other countries, why not here? Profiteering could have something to do with it. The scams and training organisation would be greasing politicians pockets to stop it.

The C&G needs a bomb under it along with the IET. Nothing but money grubbing leaches. Maintaining standards? All they are doing is maintaining their living standards.
The standard of examinations has been lowered to suit the pass rate.

Training is a farce as proved by the thread on the AM2 course. A three year old can play “join the dots!”


I’m retired from heavy engineering as are a lot of my counterparts, what is being done to replace us. Train more useless DI’s.
This country needs manufacturing not house building!


I was once proud of this industry, it makes me ashamed now.


If you’re upset with what I say you must be amongst the ones not qualified for a national register.

Very true. But most of the leaches aren't even fit for domestic work.

Makes me ashamed, too.
 
and a prime example of this was the old 2391.....
time n time again when you look at the chief examiners reports for this exam its all about wrong terminology, no understanding about choice & setting of OPDs, no concept of earth paths.....ect ect...
clearly many candidates that were being accepted to take this exam were simply not at the level (at that time in their development) to stand any real chance of success.
thats when you get cross and start to realise its all about getting arses on seats....not about the quality of the candidates they turn out or the chances of success of said candidates...
dispicable...it really is....

It's dEspicable Glenn ....... with an "e" ........it's important to use the correct terminology!! ;)
 
and a prime example of this was the old 2391.....
time n time again when you look at the chief examiners reports for this exam its all about wrong terminology, no understanding about choice & setting of OPDs, no concept of earth paths.....ect ect...
clearly many candidates that were being accepted to take this exam were simply not at the level (at that time in their development) to stand any real chance of success.
thats when you get cross and start to realise its all about getting arses on seats....not about the quality of the candidates they turn out or the chances of success of said candidates...
dispicable...it really is....

Terminology is a very moot point.

Unfortunately gone are the days of the examination adjudicators knowing the subject.

They would check you’re calculation method, give you an extra point if you got it right.

Engineering principals was a swine of an exam, add advanced mathematics, test methods and reliability, technical drawing. All in the space of a fortnight!

I felt like I’d been run over by a steam roller!
 
its just the scenareo thats all...
the scams inform HMRC about any notifyable jobs....probably half the reason they were set up in the first place.....
but as you says Murdoch...its them thats doing cash in hand stuff, thats not certing their work and that claim their registered with a scheme.....when I know they damned well arn`t....they are the ones who are pisin me of...
you know who you are....[/QUOTE]

Time to call HMRC???
 
So the year is 1972. You are working for a large engineering company who have there own electrical department.
They take you on as an apprentice and you work along side time served qualified electricians, who are many years your senior.
You attend day release at college and cover a C&G 236 three year course in electrical intallations. At the end of that time you have covered a wealth of practical experience, mainly by men you respect, and know the trade profficiently.
You decide to attend the C certificate course two evenings a week for a further two years and recieve technicians status.
Later in life other courses come up 16th edition, 17th edition, and then theres the 2391.
As a JIB member you apply for and recieve the JIB gold card at approved status.
And then theres your schem providor saying your the qualifying officer.
Your responsibilities through the years have also resulted in a JIB platinum sight managers card.
40 years later, and you your asking yourself what was it all about ??
Because after all that your not a Part P electrician.
Just sharing where and what I am. And wondering even now what makes these guys qualified ???????????
 
its just the scenareo thats all...
the scams inform HMRC about any notifyable jobs....probably half the reason they were set up in the first place.....
but as you says Murdoch...its them thats doing cash in hand stuff, thats not certing their work and that claim their registered with a scheme.....when I know they damned well arn`t....they are the ones who are pisin me of...
you know who you are....[/QUOTE]

Time to call HMRC???
i`m that close Murdoch...i really am....
and like i says...i doubt he`s got any public liability either....
carrying out works in/on other folk`s property without the necessary insurance to cover it if it all goes arse up....grrrrr..
 

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