£1 billion of UK aid to fight climate change in Africa

[ezzzekiel]

Thankfully, such a narcissistic outlook is not the norm in society although I am frequently surprised by it when it rears it's ugly head.

It was posted to invoke a reaction which it did, the point being you believe your statements and opinions on aid policy to be the right choice, i prefer to invest the billions into my own country where a difference can be made.

" give a man a fish - he'll ask you for the salt"

 

[moggy1968]

nah, chips!!

 

[ezzzekiel]

And maybe a bun

 

[bumcrack]

Africa needs a billion condoms, not a billion quid.

 

[ezzzekiel]

Narcisstic view that, very selfish, save some for this country 

 

[SolarCity]

when the country is back up and running then we can afford to help other countries out ,you look after your own first

Great. So when we've sorted out the grotesque public sector pensions and spent billions of pounds on the olympics then we can start providing vaccines and water to Africa.

The African people are your own.

 

[SolarCity]

Sorry Biggs but you're sounding like GB there, pure fantasy.

Not fantasy at all.

Someone I know is earning £60k a year for driving a bin truck - or at least he was. He earns only slightly more than some of the bin collectors get. It's not fantasy at all - the man that drives the trucks around the streets earns twice as much in a year as I do.

There are similar jobs with similarly disproportionate pay around the Birmingham area. They'll be striking next week......

 

[ezzzekiel]

the man that drives the trucks around the streets earns twice as much in a year as I do.

ah, so you are better than him and deserve more money or food, clean water perhaps.
If your standard of living needs to improve then stand up and improve it dont just sit back while hes earning 60k and wait for aid as by the time it trickles down the chain most of it will of mysteriously dissapeared.

 

[SolarCity]

ah, so you are better than him and deserve more money or food, clean water perhaps.

Who said I am better than him? I don't see your point at all.

If your standard of living needs to improve then stand up and improve it dont just sit back while hes earning 60k and wait for aid as by the time it trickles down the chain most of it will of mysteriously dissapeared.

I am more than happy with my standard of living - I don't see how it is relevant to what I have been saying at all though.

 

[langstroth2]

ah, so you are better than him and deserve more money or food, clean water perhaps.

We all pay taxes so that others can provide public services many need. That's fine. What isn't, is also paying taxes for those same people to live on generous pensions. If they earn a good wage, like that bin driver Biggs mentioned, they should save for their own retirement like the rest of us. The pension strikes planned for this week are just wrong; I suspect in many cases the people striking have really no concept of just how generous their pensions are (even after the proposed gov changes).

 

[Noshocks]

We all pay taxes so that others can provide public services many need. That's fine. What isn't, is also paying taxes for those same people to live on generous pensions. If they earn a good wage, like that bin driver Biggs mentioned, they should save for their own retirement like the rest of us. The pension strikes planned for this week are just wrong; I suspect in many cases the people striking have really no concept of just how generous their pensions are (even after the proposed gov changes).

I agree, I am pretty easy going about most things but I have several friends that work for the NHS, they spend three afternoons a week at the gym when they are supposed to be visiting homes to help people quit smoking, their manager is hopeless and never checks, and guess what they are striking as well, they have nearly 40 days holiday and arrange who will take what sick days between them, you couldent make it up.

 

[TedM]

I have a friend who worked for the MoD, started there when he left school at 16. Retired aged 51 after 35 years service on full pension. Doesn't need to work ever again.

 

[SolarCity]

My policeman uncle is also retired aged 48. His pension is eye watering. He need not work again.

Firemen are another bunch. Their pay and work conditions are staggering - truly staggering. A group of them work on some of our sites labouring. They go to work during the evening and sleep and then come to us in the day and earn money again. They then get their normal time off and come on site again. They earn more in their second job than we do in our normal job. Add their ridiculous pension on top and it makes you wonder what they're thinking when they strike.

The ironic consequence for the strikers is that if often reveals to the general tax paying public just how comfy the public sector is.

 

[SRE]

Firemen- makes my blood boil :cuss:. Our neighbour is a fireman, moved into his house and took 3 weeks holiday/lieu followed by 12 months on the sick. He worked every day he was off putting a new kitchen in replacing the bathroom suite & tiling, new en-suite built, everywhere decorated and new extension built which he didn't do but he did everything else - with the help of his mates at the fire service!

So they all knew what he was doing but because they were making out of it too they kept quiet. Guess who's going out on strike on Wednesday. When I commented on early retirement I was told they didn't get that any more they had to work until they are 60 - yes 60 !

A while ago we were busy and he was bored so he suggested that for minimum wage he'd help us out. Nearly 3 million unemployed, he gets a decent wage - but he wanted more. WELL NOT FROM ME HE ISN'T! :greedy:

 

[alarm man]

im not sure how you can question a fireman,without doubt the bravest people around,who cares if they sleep at work that comes with the job,as long as their available to save mine and your families if the worst was ever to happen..id pay them double what they earn

 

[SRE]

Difficult to be brave when you're not at work!

 

[SolarCity]

im not sure how you can question a fireman,without doubt the bravest people around,who cares if they sleep at work that comes with the job,as long as their available to save mine and your families if the worst was ever to happen..id pay them double what they earn

Do I care if they sleep at work? Not at all - but it is certainly a major perk of the job, particularly when it actually enables you to do a second job in the day.

There is no shortage of applicants to work in the fire services so it doesn't seem like a particularly good idea to pay them double what they earn. Especially when I'm statistically far more likely to injure myself or lose my life than a fireman is. Are they brave? Maybe so. But it appears that they have less reason to be fearful than you or I.

 

[alarm man]

Do I care if they sleep at work? Not at all - but it is certainly a major perk of the job, particularly when it actually enables you to do a second job in the day.

There is no shortage of applicants to work in the fire services so it doesn't seem like a particularly good idea to pay them double what they earn. Especially when I'm statistically far more likely to injure myself or lose my life than a fireman is. Are they brave? Maybe so. But it appears that they have less reason to be fearful than you or I.

we all face some form of danger when we go to work,less likely now with all the h&s training and safe working practices,we see a danger we stop work report it etc you know the score,a fireman doesnt quite have the same degree of h&s,a risk assesment in a spit second we sit around mulling what ra's are applicable then we get the permit signed etc takes longer signing into jobs than the actual job these days,there into that burning building to save us,while putting their own life at risk,would do it as a job? i can tell you i wouldnt

 

[SolarCity]

we all face some form of danger when we go to work,less likely now with all the h&s training and safe working practices,we see a danger we stop work report it etc you know the score,a fireman doesnt quite have the same degree of h&s,a risk assesment in a spit second we sit around mulling what ra's are applicable then we get the permit signed etc takes longer signing into jobs than the actual job these days,there into that burning building to save us,while putting their own life at risk,would do it as a job? i can tell you i wouldnt

Would I do it as a job? Too bloody right I would. It's cushy.

And no matter what those risk assessments do, we still work in a far more dangerous industry than firemen do. Don't believe me? The stats don't lie.

 

[alarm man]

Would I do it as a job? Too bloody right I would. It's cushy.

And no matter what those risk assessments do, we still work in a far more dangerous industry than firemen do. Don't believe me? The stats don't lie.

well apply then,risk your life for 21-28k..

 

[SolarCity]

well apply then,risk your life for 21-28k..

I'm pretty sure you're not getting my point. I do risk my life, statistically more so than a fireman and I do it for an hourly rate which is considerably lower.

Furthermore, my respect for the fire service evaporated entirely when they put lifes at risk by going on strike. Shame on every single one of them that voted to do so.

Public sector workers have it far too easy and now they are demanding to be kept immune from the same kind of economic pressures that affect the rest of us. I am expected a big public backlash and it's about sodding time too.

 

[alarm man]

I'm pretty sure you're not getting my point. I do risk my life, statistically more so than a fireman and I do it for an hourly rate which is considerably lower.

Furthermore, my respect for the fire service evaporated entirely when they put lifes at risk by going on strike. Shame on every single one of them that voted to do so.

Public sector workers have it far too easy and now they are demanding to be kept immune from the same kind of economic pressures that affect the rest of us. I am expected a big public backlash and it's about sodding time too.

look biggs we differ on opinion,but while the pv lads are going to save the world and die doing it im not going to slate you for it(pardon the pun) the likes of fireman,police,doctors,nurses,armed forces.paramedics etc have my utmost respect for the jobs they do and imo dont get paid enough to do them,its down to them a lot of young lads and lasses putting their lives on the line so the likes of me and you can walk this land safely and knowing if anything goes wrong they will be there to help us..construction work is dangerous but we arnt putting our lives on the line just by turning up to work,accidents happen yes but thats what they are,and if they do its the above which rush to our help ironically,you dont beleive in striking,thats your right,but plenty others do,and thats their right too..

 

[SolarCity]

That's all very good but you still seem to be missing my recurring point. I will refrain from repeating myself again.

 

[alarm man]

That's all very good but you still seem to be missing my recurring point. I will refrain from repeating myself again.

yes i know you put your life on the line everyday...theres more deaths in construction but what the stats pro-rata as theres a lot more construction workers than fireman,or we could add a poll,

would you feel happier/safer-and why
a-working on a building site
b-enter a burning house/factory looking for trapped occupants

hopefully that will put an end to this debate,which ive enjoyed biggs by the way,no name calling no im gonna do you when your in london pal,as some of the threads have gone..

 

[bumcrack]

I'm pretty sure you're not getting my point. I do risk my life, statistically more so than a fireman and I do it for an hourly rate which is considerably lower.

Furthermore, my respect for the fire service evaporated entirely when they put lifes at risk by going on strike. Shame on every single one of them that voted to do so.

Public sector workers have it far too easy and now they are demanding to be kept immune from the same kind of economic pressures that affect the rest of us. I am expected a big public backlash and it's about sodding time too.

Biggs,

I have not read all this thread, so apologies if I am replying out of context...


However, if your first statement is true, I would suggest you review your methods of working. Joe sparks, whether on a roof, or terra firma, should not be anywhere near the risk level of somebody in the emergency services.

 

[SRE]

How much does a squaddie in Afghanistan get then? Now there's an argument for increased terms and conditions if ever I heard one. Since when was 100k for a GP and £34k for a nurse a bad deal and don't even get me started on teachers!

What about the poor sods trying to do admin at the whoelsalers for the last month. Probably just above minimum wage, shafted by their area managers (Steve excepted ;-)) getting grief for let down installers, little prospect of keeping their jobs never mind having a pension.

I speak as ex- public sector. They don't know they are born. Put them in the private sector for a week, I doubt they'd last. How would they manage without their flexi time, coffee breaks, lunch, excessive holidays, they wouldn't be able to half the jobs because their risk assessments wouldn't allow them to do it.

There are some hard workers in the public sector but they work hard in relation to other public sector workers, not the private sector. If we could afford for everyone to be the same it wouldn't be aproblem but I object to paying the taxes I do so that the house next door to me can be renovated at a fraction of the cost and believe me - he's not alone!

Rant over - I'm not saying anything else, it's winding me up and I need to finish 3 jobs before I have my heart attack. Which inceidnetaly I shouldn't have on Wednesday or at the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dansk]

This thread has drifted from the op, at the end of the day I'm all for charity if there is anything spare to hand out, but with the countries deficit as it stands surely a billion pound in aid would be better spent at home our infrastructure? Once were sorted then look to help others, maybe I'm being short sited but that's how I see it.

Were do we keep finding all this money to give away? When we can't find any money to pay our own debts?

 

[moggy1968]

ok guys, time to fess up
before I was an electrician I was a nurse, an A&E specialist. I've also been a soldier, truck driver and labourer. The nurse was the toughest job I have ever done. where you get the idea that nurses earn 34k a year I don't know, thats nonsense. MY boss in A/E earned less than 40k. she had resposibilty for a department that was one of the busiest in the UK and was responsible for over 100 nursing staff. The stress levels are truly unbelievable, they make the last month look like a playground jolly, beleieve me. I wouldn't do her job for any money. I used to work a 13 hour shift in A&E (and still do when work is quiet doing a bit of agency work) in that time I will get 2 half hour breaks, and will be on my feet non stop for the rest of the shift. During that shift I will be sworn at and verbally abused (note will be, not may be) and I may be punched, kicked, vomitted on, ****ed on and crapped on (in all meanings of the word), and after all that I'll be slagged off by the daily mail.

One of my mates is a paramedic on the air ambulance. He's a trained helicopter crewman and one of the most highly trained paramedics in the country. he earns less than 30k a year.

If you are a policeman and you spend your whole working life working shifts on average you will enjoy 2 years of retirement before you die, such is the physical strain of shifts.

A recent study in America showed that the average life expectancy of an A&E consultant wa just 58.

Thats a few FACTS for you

yes, there are some very cushy numbers in the public sector, but don't tar everyoe with the same brush.
I don't agree with the strike, but I don't agree that working in the public sector is the life of riley with riches beyond the dreams of avarice either

 

[SRE]

Politics Show on Sunday but I know we've been mis-represented so I guess they could have got this wrong too.

 

[SolarCity]

yes i know you put your life on the line everyday...theres more deaths in construction but what the stats pro-rata as theres a lot more construction workers than fireman,or we could add a poll,

would you feel happier/safer-and why
a-working on a building site
b-enter a burning house/factory looking for trapped occupants

hopefully that will put an end to this debate,which ive enjoyed biggs by the way,no name calling no im gonna do you when your in london pal,as some of the threads have gone..

Actually, there are far more deaths in the construction industry pro-rata than the fire service - especially scaffolders and roofers.

 

[SolarCity]

Biggs,

I have not read all this thread, so apologies if I am replying out of context...


However, if your first statement is true, I would suggest you review your methods of working. Joe sparks, whether on a roof, or terra firma, should not be anywhere near the risk level of somebody in the emergency services.

I work safely enough. But stats don't lie.

Incidentally, of the four deaths on sites that I have worked on since I started work (I witnessed none of them, incidentally), none of them were their own fault.

 

[sbrown2]

Back to the OP. Blair been on the radio this morning. He's at some summit in South Korea relating to funds in Africa. Morally the £1BN was good to put in but its nothing compared to what China and the far east are investing in Africa. I am assuming that you think the country with the most money in the coffers is just throwing good money after bad! I think not!! Africa for all its woes is rich in metals, minerals, oil and gas hey and guess what else? Sun
Blair reckons, rightly or wrongly, that out of the top twenty growing countries half are in Africa.
This aid isn't being given purely out of sound morals. Its being given to ensure a prescence when the resources are being divied up.
Blair would't be pressed on the current state of the economy and how he thought the current goverment was performing!

 

[piggyitm]

Back to the OP. Blair been on the radio this morning. He's at some summit in South Korea relating to funds in Africa. Morally the £1BN was good to put in but its nothing compared to what China and the far east are investing in Africa.

£1BN Just from the UK!! Add all the rest from the West and you've got a geopolitical land grab.

According to The Telegraph "Among the projects to be funded will be schemes to help African farmers insure their crops against flooding and drought"

I thought they might be funding irrigation projects,It turns out that we will be backing the supply and investment of drought tolerant "climate ready" GM crops.Lets see who receives the money,I bet It won't be any subsistence farmers or even an African Government.

 

[sbrown2]

Agreed!!!!!