£10,500 for 3.5kw system?

[Trimglafix]

I need some help quickly please.
Some friends of mine have signed up for a 3.5KW Solar PV install at a cost of £10,500 + loan to pay for it.
They have been told it will have paid for itself within 3.8 to 5 years.
I have Solar PV myself so have some knowledge about them but not enough to convince them that they have been overcharged & told incorrect information. I believe the install is way over price (based on current adverts I've seen) & the payback time impossible to achieve.
They are within the cooling off period until Monday & I want to convince them to use it.
Can you please give me some useful information to persuade them to cancel (or correct me if I'm wrong)?
They are based in West Yorkshire & if I can convince them to cancel I would no doubt be required to recommend an alternative; therefore rough quotes will be useful too.
Thank you, in anticipation.

Details:
Install Cost : £10,500
Total amount payable: £15,700 (Inc. loan interest, set up fees etc.)
String 1/ String 2
Number of Panels: 8 / 6
Panel Output: 2000 / 1500
Peak Output: 1600 / 1200
Annual Solar Irradiation: 698 / 893
Shading Factor: 1 / 1
SAP Calculation: 1116 / 1071

String 1 is facing roughly South, String 2 roughly West.
Panels: Sharp polycrystalline
Inverter: Power 1 Aurora

Customer Age: 65 plus
Monthly electric bill in region of £80

Any more info required, please ask. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

 

[telectrix]

bloody hell. way over the top. payback period is generally around the 8 - 10 year mark. sounds like a salesman on huge commission. having said that, i'm no expert on solar. wait till this evening when the PV lads are on. bet they ripp that quote to bits.

 

[lazyIH]

I had salesman visit last week for a 4 kW system, he couldn't tell Me details of panels or inverter, i.e. makes and models, so I asked for a ball park figure - £ 9,000. He was in the house approx. ten minutes.

I am still awaiting a quote, but most of the ones I've had are around or under £ 6,000 for a 4 kW system, so yes to this amateur the quote seems excessive.

Ian

 

[Gavin A]

cancel immediately, and name and shame and report to RECC please.

That is more likely to take 15 years to repay than 5 years. To give an idea, most of our genuine payback times for domestic customers are in the 7-8 year region, but that is for systems at around £6.5k for 4kWp, not £15k for 3.5kWp, so this is straight out fraud IMO.

 

[Gavin A]

I bet the payback times were only given verbally as well?

probably 13.8-15 years was what it actually would be.

 

[telectrix]

cancel immediately, and name and shame and report to RECC please.

That is more likely to take 15 years to repay than 5 years. To give an idea, most of our genuine payback times for domestic customers are in the 7-8 year region, but that is for systems at around £6.5k for 4kWp, not £15k for 3.5kWp, so this is straight out fraud IMO.

that's what i thought, and i know bugger all about solar, except what i have read on the forum.

 

[Berneray]

that's what i thought, and i know bugger all about solar, except what i have read on the forum.

Then when you add on the cost of the loan I bet it will take the real cost to well over £16000.

 

[SolarCity]

Way overpriced and overpricing tends to go hand in hand with disastrous installs.

West Yorkshire is well represented on these forums. Get them to call one of these guys.

 

[telectrix]

it's not that arsehole talked about in the other thread about a bad installation is it? if it is, then all the more reason to cancel.

 

[Gavin A]

Way overpriced and overpricing tends to go hand in hand with disastrous installs.

West Yorkshire is well represented on these forums. Get them to call one of these guys.

west yorkshire you say?

That'd be our patch then, I hadn't actually clicked about that bit. OP if you want a sensible quote for your friends please get them to get in touch over the weekend / next week. www.leeds-solar.co.uk/quote

Our team will be happy to assist, I hate seeing these companies ripping people off like this.

 

[Trimglafix]

Thank you all for your useful comments.
I am happy to name the company if that is the general consensus of those replying.
I have presented a link to this thread to my friends, so hopefully they will accept your offer of a quote Gavin.

 

[Trimglafix]

As I've received a PM about who this company is, I may as well make it available to all to view.
I've not gone on hear say about any of this (I have the paperwork) therefore the company involved can have no complaint about their name being linked to anything I have previously stated.
The company is Mainframe Group (Company number 06134099).
I hope naming them will encourage comments from others who have dealt with them (either good or bad).

 

[HandySparks]

Here's an ad from their Facebook page:



Love the free fitting offer, classy!

 

[Sunshine777]

The SAP figures look reasonable but also suggest the property is good but not ideal for solar PV.

if we round the SAP figures to 2200 kWh per year the system will pay:
2200 x 14.38p = £316.36 for generation
2200 x 50% x 4.77p = £48.07 for deemed export

that's £354.43 per year.

if we ignore indexing for inflation and estimate the total system cost at £15K their stated 5 year payback would require FIT payments plus eleccy bill savings of £3K per year. Your friend's eleccy bill is only £960/year. 50% savings on the bill from a PV system is already good going so that's £354+£480=£834. Where is the missing £2164/year going to come from!?!?

Ii'll venture a guess that the FIT and bill savings will just about cover the interest payments on the loan and not much more, if anything.

My take is this is an over-priced system touted as reaching an impossible payback rate with a very pricey loan attached. The salesman is probably poised to book his holiday in the sun off the commissions and kick-backs on this. Sounds like dodgy double glazing salesman meets Wonga - steer well clear!

As a friend taught me 30+ years about: figures don't lie but liars can figure.

 

[Trimglafix]

Thanks to all again; especially "Sunshine777" for the figures. All your comments have helped
The good news is that the contract cancellation is now in the post (within 7 working days of signing) & I will telephone the company involved on Monday to inform them verbally.

My friends have access to these comments & are still interested in Solar PV so any further hassle free offers to quote will be welcome.

 

[telectrix]

that's great. hope the cancellation was sent as signed for. would also be a good idea to confirm via email.

i'm sure one of the PV members on here will be happy to give your friends an honest quote.

 

[Worcester]

Thanks to all again; especially "Sunshine777" for the figures. All your comments have helped
The good news is that the contract cancellation is now in the post (within 7 working days of signing) & I will telephone the company involved on Monday to inform them verbally.

My friends have access to these comments & are still interested in Solar PV so any further hassle free offers to quote will be welcome.

The LAW changed a few months ago and the cooling off period is now 14 days
Legally they should also have been issued with a cancellation form, and makes sure it's not just the order, that they also cancel any finance agreement (which may be seperate) send it recorded delivery.

6.2.1 Cancellation rights where consumers sign contracts in the home, away from trade premises or by distance meansIn certain circumstances the contracts Code members agree will be governed by the Consumer Contracts (Information,
Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. These Regulations apply to a contract or quotation where:
a consumer signs it, during a sales or other visit in their home or elsewhere away from the Code member’s trade
premises in the presence of a representative of the Code member; or
a consumer agrees it with a Code member exclusively by distance means (for example by email or by post).
In these circumstances Code members must give the consumer the right to cancel without penalty within 14 days of the
date on which the goods were all delivered to the consumer’s home. (This is known as the 'cancellation period').
These Regulations may also apply to contracts or quotations where:
a Code member gives it to a consumer following a sales visit, a technical site survey or other visit in a consumer’s
home if the consumer signs the quotation or contract and returns it immediately after the visit without having had
sufficient time to consider it;
a Code member gives it to a consumer following a sales visit, a technical site survey or other visit in a consumer’s
home if the Code member later chases the consumer in any way to sign and return it; or
a Code member agrees it with a consumer exclusively by distance means (for example by email or post) following a
visit in the consumer’s home for technical survey purposes only.
In these circumstances Code members must give the consumer the right to cancel without penalty within 14 days of the
date on which the goods were all delivered to the consumer’s home. (This is known as the 'cancellation period').
In the event that a consumer cancels the contract within the cancellation period, Code members must refund any money to
the consumer within 14 days.
Code members who fail to give the consumer written notice that they can cancel the contract may not be able to enforce the
contract and may be committing a criminal offence. The cancellation period may be extended up to 12 months or until the
Code member has complied with its obligation to give the consumer written notice that they can cancel the contract. The
notice Code members provide must be exactly in line with Schedule 3 of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation
and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.
The Code administrator has prepared a model cancellation form and draft guidance here. Code members must keep a record
of cases in which consumers cancel contracts together with the reasons given.

*

 

[jason121]

I like this little clause

Code members must give the consumer the right to cancel without penalty within 14 days of the
date on which the goods were all delivered to the consumer’s home. (This is known as the 'cancellation period').

 

[telectrix]

so, that appears to me to say that a customer signs up for an install say today, 13th oct. the contractor allows 14 days after signing, then , having bought all the gear and arranging an install date, say for arguments sake, 3rd november, turns up on site with all the panels etc., and then the customer has 14 days to cancel?

 

[jason121]

Yep. Or I turn up with equipment in van and wait 14 days. I need a caravan

 

[Gavin A]

so, that appears to me to say that a customer signs up for an install say today, 13th oct. the contractor allows 14 days after signing, then , having bought all the gear and arranging an install date, say for arguments sake, 3rd november, turns up on site with all the panels etc., and then the customer has 14 days to cancel?

yes, and the reason being that this was never supposed to be applied to fixed installations like solar PV, it was aimed at consumer goods, but RECC are useless, so just decided it must apply to us all as well.

I'll be writing to them shortly to ask to see the legal opinion they're relying on to make this ruling.

 

[Trimglafix]

I can confirm that the contract has been acknowledged as cancelled by Mainframe (verbally but recorded by me as proof). The cancellation letter is also in the post & an email has been sent too.
It took 3 'phone calls and a day of waiting for confirmation, but no pressure was applied to persuade me not to cancel. I was not even asked why I wanted to cancel (strange, but maybe they access this forum?). So far the true signatories of the contract have not been contacted either.
I have been told the deposit will be returned within 7 days. I hope for their employees sake it does as there were so many breaches of legislation & codes of conduct that I'm sure formal complaints will harm their business.

With regard to the cancellation rights discussed above; I wholeheartedly agree. There are dishonest consumers as well as suppliers. They could have a free Christmas using them. I wish you all luck in avoiding the dodgy consumers.

 

[telectrix]

good to see a satisfactory result. as an aside, i had a phone call ( cold sell) this morning. solar PV installed at no outlay in conjunction with barclays bank. basically, barclays fund the installation and the PV company say that the savings and the FIT will repay the loan within 4 years. now, to me, that just does not add up. assume a ball park figure of £6000 for the install, approx returns of £750/annum, that would take 8 years to repay an interest free loan. smells of fish.

 

[lazyIH]

Not sure it is something from sea/river you can smell, more like the farm yard

 

[JulianC]

Bullfish?