100,000 new sparkies

[ricardo123]

I was reading somewhere a month or so ago that currently this year alone 100,000 new sparkies will be trained up. 95% of those will be trained on the short courses , i.e. the 4-8 week courses, the other 5% being apprentices or those completing NVQ's etc. Does this spell the end for Domestic Installers, same thing has been happening with Driving Instructing, .i.e. its become very hard to make a living from it(I mean purely Domestic Installers here). Any comments anyone?

 

[Engineer54]

Tony you make a very good point here between domestic and industrial that is poles apart skill and knowledge wise of course the 17 days and Electrical Trainee are aimed at domestic I myself worked with conduit trunking MICC with 3 phase distribution systems although we can bang on as much as we want but we need to make a Domestic electrician grade as a separate entity

I agree with almost all your points on this thread, but making a separate entity of domestic electricians is NOT the way to go. By doing that, you are bowing to the scheme providers, agents and training centre's goal of opening the door to spitting this industry every which way they can. What is needed, is a minimum but meaningful and appropriate qualifications coupled with proven practical experience ...And the total abolishment of any fast track course, that are totally useless to man or beast.

If these career changing folk want that career change to become an electrician, then they will need to be able (and willing) to put the time and the effort in. Being less than semi skilled at best, is not and should not be an option for anyone in this industry....

 

[Knobhead]

I’ll admit, domestic work is a mystery to me. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of houses I’ve done. One was my own, the others I had my arm twisted in to doing them.
Each to his own as far as I’m concerned.
Two companies I worked for decided we had to do the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] and then the 17[SUP]th[/SUP], I’ve never been so bored in my life. I even had to ask what a first and second fix was.
I’ll stick to what I know and make sure I know it well.

 

[Silly Sausage]

You would often see me with a sledgehammer and 36” stillsons slung across my shoulders.

Very useful kit in the shipyard!

 

[flyingsausage]

No reason what so ever.
But the training needs to be structured as an apprenticeship. I’m was really aiming this towards maintenance and fault finding not installation.
As FS said though, I’ve had more that my fair share of following up botched installation jobs when we’ve started commissioning trials. It wasn’t unusual for us to be a week behind schedule with having to put things right.

The scary thing now is last year I seen four different adverts looking for sparks mates that had the CompEx Ex1 to Ex4 Certificate.
You don't have to be smart to know this is not a good thing and could cause the death of several people because a gland is botched in an area full of gas.
Many sparks up here in Scotland have been caught out with having a fake CompEx Certificate so the sparks mates will have the photoshop ones as well.

 

[flyingsausage]

If your still refering to industrial maintenance then there is no alternative whatsoever to on the job experience coupled with knowing your stuff and the tried and trusted apprenticeship(preferably at a young age) will get that person in a position where they can blosom into a maintenance spark,after quite a few more years may I say

I was trained as a maintenance spark many years ago,I was OK at my job, but concentrated on installation early on in my career

Nowadays I wouldn't dream of trying to pass myself off in the maintenance field having been left behind with the changes that have taken place
It would take a while working alongside competent others before their knowledge, coupled with my own training and experience would make it sensible
Someone with inadequate training would soon find themselves exposed when a factories production process was left idle for any period

This is one area where fast tracking would be akin to putting an operator of the Dodgems in the pilot set of an Airplane,there will be an accident or at the least a quick sacking

I do agree with you Des.
I am an installation spark and have been at it for over twenty years,I have installed most systems over the years,but would not have a clue as to how the different things I install work,

 

[jamie-spark]

Do the jib not run the adult trainee scheme ?
The sjib run the scheme 4 year adult trainee (apprenticeship). Cover the same course work then at then end you sit the same FICA TEST and come out with the same qualifications as the juniors . the additional course work to become approved is also undertaken . Then after a further two years sit your ACA

 

[Engineer54]

Do the jib not run the adult trainee scheme ?
The sjib run the scheme 4 year adult trainee (apprenticeship). Cover the same course work then at then end you sit the same FICA TEST and come out with the same qualifications as the juniors . the additional course work to become approved is also undertaken . Then after a further two years sit your ACA

No idea, though it does ring a bell...

The dirty words in such a scheme is ''4 YEARS''!! This is now a society of ''I want it NOW!!'' No-ones interested in spending time and effort investing for the future anymore!!

 

[vjsmarwick]

There is no way in this world anyone can learn in 4 weeks what it took us 4 years to learn.
What the government is doing is as criminal as cheating on their expenses.
what we are going to end up with is thousands of property's with substandard wiring causing fires and loss of life which in turn will reflect badly on all sparks not only the 4 week wonders.
After that there will be an outcry at us to undergo refresher courses every year and have to pay for them and it will be thousands ££££.
Then they will bring in new regulations and will reduce voltage to 110V to try and claim its safer like abroad so everyone will have to rewire everything for thousands ££££ more. All the time we as qualified well trained sparks are paying for the governments balls ups as always. Its about time we all stood together and started to rebel against what they are trying to do to our one time great trade before its too late.
We used to have the greatest electrical system in the world why should we lower our standards to come in to line with the EU it should be them moving up to come in to line with us !!!

 

[imago]

what we are going to end up with is thousands of property's with substandard wiring causing fires and loss of life which in turn will reflect badly on all sparks not only the 4 week wonders.

Really? OK, things aren't as good as they used to be, but then every generation says that (and maybe right). I don't think the sky is falling though, so the fires and loss of life statement is well OTT. I don't doubt that there's plenty of shoddy work going on and appliances/circuits failing here and there, but it's hardly going to be the end of the world now is it?

 

[Zeno]

Government does Not know what is going on, if you mean Parliament.


The DCLG Commons Select Committee who held an Inquiry into Part P, only know what the Schemes have told them.


The new Minister for Building Regulation Don Foster defiantly does not know what is going on, I believe that DCLG Buildings Division have not presented him with the full facts.


Government thinks that all the NEW jobs created by the Schemes and Training organisations are really good and beneficial to the country.


Have the Schemes told Government about the collapse in installation standards No, why would they?


What the majority of people in the trade don't realise is, that it is only the Schemes that vote on Standards the rest of the committee are only Observers, they vote for 5DW- Electrical Trainee.


So who is going to tell them?

 

[i=p/u]

i say we catapult mad mac and flyingsausage into downing street

 

[Big n Daft]

Things are only going to get worse. The people with influence dont like clever people and sparks are smart arse's.

 

[Dcf]

The industrial apprenticeships and subsequent on the job training cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to get a school leaver to a competant standard. The company hopes to recoupe that during the subsequent working life of the employee. Well that's what happened several decades ago. It's no longer possible for it to work in that way as most of the places which had the money and infrastructure to do it are long gone.

Hence the move to smaller scope areas of work for electricians. If Mrs Jones wants her CU changing she really doesn't give a monkey's if the person doing it can build a replica of spaghetti junction from one continuous length of galvanised conduit.

It's the same in most trades and professions now, since the demise of the big manufacturing plants there's no longer a requirement for, or budget to train, all rounders. Welcome to the age of the one trick pony.

Couldn't agree more with this post.
the day of the good all rounder is sadly gone.your training really decided how it went for you in later life. A mate of mine got saddled with going out on his own on his second year to do storage heater installs.
needless to say he was at a stage where he needed supervision and not doing just what he thought, I was with another firm getting shown the ropes to a wide scope by old boys who new the game.
Go to the present day and he cuts corners all the time.
i try to keep standards high cos that's what I was taught.
some of the trainees will no doubt make the grade but a high percentage will no doubt fail and go onto the next big thing.
all trades are being increasingly compartmentalised into so called specialist

 

[imago]

all trades are being increasingly compartmentalised into so called specialist

When I served my apprenticeship I moaned about having to go into the stores fora while, then the metalwork/paint area and so on. The guy I was put with on the tools said "Insects specialise for their environment, humans adapt to their surroundings and change them frequently."

Obviously I thought he was just another old giffer spouting nonsense, mainly because I already knew everything about life. Funny how perspective isn't just affected by distance, but also by time.

 

[oldtimer]

I got put on a job half way through my 3rd year thought my gaffer was an old barsteward but years later realised that he was preparing me for later life I was running jobs in my 4th year even having to train some hoose bashers or domestic electricians who were not happy the 4th year was training them in conduit trunking 3 phase. This set me up but also I was never lazy was always willing to learn and this set me up for my business today . Went to see a storage heater fault and diagnosed the problem in 10 minutes nice wee callout as my skills are paying off now