100,000 new sparkies

[ricardo123]

I was reading somewhere a month or so ago that currently this year alone 100,000 new sparkies will be trained up. 95% of those will be trained on the short courses , i.e. the 4-8 week courses, the other 5% being apprentices or those completing NVQ's etc. Does this spell the end for Domestic Installers, same thing has been happening with Driving Instructing, .i.e. its become very hard to make a living from it(I mean purely Domestic Installers here). Any comments anyone?

 

[Zeno]

Well the Schemes can tell government whatever they want, they can tell them about skills shortages, they could tell them about all the NEW jobs they have created with the Short courses.

Many in the secret meetings have no idea about short course Electricians, they only know what they are told by the Schemes and the training providers.

They are mostly employees, so even when they know the trade and disagree totally with the Scams that take place, they have to do as their directors tell them.

The training providers are only providing people for the Schemes, if the Schemes did not accept them it would stop.

Who decided that short courses would be acceptable, that is the EAS Committee, who votes on that committee? The Schemes and surprisingly the IET, the rest on that committee are just there as observers (DCLG, HSE, UKAS, Summit Skills, BSI etc)

So is that another conflict of interest, to add to those found by the DCLG Commons Select Committee inquiry into Part P?

The short courses could stop in April but probably wont because they are so lucrative, to be replaced with a new C&G Mickey Mouse Domestic Installer exam, to feed the Scam Provider machine.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

I did 3 years of evenings to get my 2330. And out of a class of 30 about 5 of us were already in the trade. U think about 2 more found work while the where at college, and the other 23 just carried in in their jobs. Even after it was done. Sometimes get calls from some of them asking to do jobs at there houses.

That's 3 years of college and 7-8 (roughly) exams. practical and theory. some of the written papers, and the still didn't have a clue.

 

[Essexboy7]

As i'm doing one of these 4 week 'fast track' courses I thought i'd add my say too, hopefully not to get shot down in flames.....

For some people (like myself) who work Mon-Fri in a current job its impossible to reskill in another trade any other way apart from these courses where you can study at home and then do a week at a time around your work commitments. The problem does lie with getting actual experience, which unless you are lucky and have a relative/friend who works in the industry to take you on as a mate, will have to be gained on the job. You can only get experience by doing the work and we all have to start somewhere.

I wonder how many sparks on here started out doing diy electics in their own home reading books from the library and continued getting experience by doing work and are now highly skilled??

This is the same in other industries as well. I've read on this thread the IT industry mentioned and the same thing is happening here - 4 week course in India for a similar price as i'm paying for the sparky stuff and I can come back with some high end Cisco qualifications (CCNA & CCNP/CCVP) but never actually seen any of the kit or installed it.

Anyway, at least i'll have had some training and will be putting in safe installations, a person at work just had a Polish spark do a load of work as "they were a lot cheaper than the other quotes" and now has a big bill from a proper spark to put everything right. I wouldn't be worried about people like me coming in with cheaper quotes so i can get experience, i'd worry about 'diyers' coming in even cheaper than that and potentially killing people......

Rant over ;-)

On these 4 week course do they teach you how to do pyro?Do you master how to do 3 bubble sets in a single piece of 25mm tube?Do they show you how to programme simmtronic lighting making sure the binary address at the LCM is the same as the Hexidecimal equivalent at the panel?You aint gonna learn that stuff doing a bit of DIY electrics and reading books.It only comes through proper training and years and years of experience.I am all for people bettering themselves but this is a skilled trade we are talking about

 

[GLENNSPARK]

but then the scams would lose a lot of their fodder and push up the subscriptions to maintain their gravy train at the level to which they have become accustomed

hmm...yes i i`d say so as well tel...
but the fact is theres just too much of these Electrical Trainee going round at the mo...
the standards of work are poor due to the shallow nature of these `courses`...

 

[flyingsausage]

This thread was started in October 2010 and nothing has changed,the industry still has the same problems.

We can only hope that the Electrical Trainee leave the trade quickly and move on to another line of work,but there will always be a conveyor belt of new suckers to keep the training schemes in business.

 

[oldtimer]

This thread was started in October 2010 and nothing has changed,the industry still has the same problems.

We can only hope that the Electrical Trainee leave the trade quickly and move on to another line of work,but there will always be a conveyor belt of new suckers to keep the training schemes in business.

Don't think that ever going to happen so let me explain you have a guy or gal who works in a dead end job so they say one day I am going to retrain as an electrician so they study away get the certs then do the 5 week course but the problem is experience so they get started by the 60p PAT or £60 EICR companies who will use them to work 50 hours a week and pay them for 40 because they know they are chasing the dream and because we have no enforcement remember we have the regulations and laws already but these companies know no one will bang their door down any day soon and if they did they would fold then start up again

 

[HappyHippyDad]

A mate of mine got made redundant after 20 years in IT and asked my advice about doing a 5 week sparkie course.I explained to him that once he has paid five and a half grand for it the fact that he knows nothing will only be the start of his problems.Then he has to go and buy a van and a couple of grands worth of drills and tools.If he goes on a private job and gets in trouble or comes across an unexpected problem he has no wide network of sparky mates to phone up for advice.He is not in the loop so sparks wont be phoning him up telling him where there is work.I asked him if he went on a site and needed help would he honestly expect someone like me who sees him as a mickey mouse spark and a threat to my own job to give him help and advice?After our conversation he binned the idea and now works as a mini cab driver.Loads of people who do these courses will find that they dont make any money out of it

My similar course cost £1500, others I have seen have cost between £2500-£3500, I have never seen any for the price you have stated.

I have spent about £1000 on good quality tools/mft and will slowly buy more as and when i can afford it, not £2000.

I have a van, but a car would be fine.

I have my 2 tutors and 2 other electricians who are helpful if I need advice. As for this site, I find the vast majority of chaps extremely helpful and willing to give advice even though they know I am a Electrical Trainee (although course was actually 6 months), because they get satisfaction out of helping others who are starting out.

The Electrical Trainee course is clearly not good enough, but I think you should have given your friend the correct information from which he could have then made an informed decision.

The government is to blame for allowing this course to be run, not myself for taking advantage of it. This has led to a huge increase in my life fulfillment and I haven't killed anyone yet.

No disrespect intented, but i dont want to be a minicab driver!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

My similar course cost £1500, others I have seen have cost between £2500-£3500, I have never seen any for the price you have stated.

I have spent about £1000 on good quality tools/mft and will slowly buy more as and when i can afford it, not £2000.

I have a van, but a car would be fine.

I have my 2 tutors and 2 other electricians who are helpful if I need advice. As for this site, I find the vast majority of chaps extremely helpful and willing to give advice even though they know I am a Electrical Trainee (although course was actually 6 months), because they get satisfaction out of helping others who are starting out.

The Electrical Trainee course is clearly not good enough, but I think you should have given your friend the correct information from which he could have then have made an informed decision.

The government is to blame for allowing this course to be run, not myself for taking advantage of it. This has led to a huge increase in my life fulfillment and I haven't killed anyone yet.

No disrespect intented, but i dont want to be a minicab driver!

look, i aint getting at you Hippy....or others like you that have gone down this route...its the fact that these routes are even there in the first place that riles me...
you just keep right on with what your doing...
i`m sure you`l be fine...

 

[MDJ]

My similar course cost £1500, others I have seen have cost between £2500-£3500, I have never seen any for the price you have stated.

I have spent about £1000 on good quality tools/mft and will slowly buy more as and when i can afford it, not £2000.

I have a van, but a car would be fine.

I have my 2 tutors and 2 other electricians who are helpful if I need advice. As for this site, I find the vast majority of chaps extremely helpful and willing to give advice even though they know I am a Electrical Trainee (although course was actually 6 months), because they get satisfaction out of helping others who are starting out.

The Electrical Trainee course is clearly not good enough, but I think you should have given your friend the correct information from which he could have then have made an informed decision.

The government is to blame for allowing this course to be run, not myself for taking advantage of it. This has led to a huge increase in my life fulfillment and I haven't killed anyone yet.

No disrespect intented, but i dont want to be a minicab driver!

Your a good guy fella, and doing well, be proud of what you have achieved.

 

[Essexboy7]

My similar course cost £1500, others I have seen have cost between £2500-£3500, I have never seen any for the price you have stated.

I have spent about £1000 on good quality tools/mft and will slowly buy more as and when i can afford it, not £2000.

I have a van, but a car would be fine.

I have my 2 tutors and 2 other electricians who are helpful if I need advice. As for this site, I find the vast majority of chaps extremely helpful and willing to give advice even though they know I am a Electrical Trainee (although course was actually 6 months), because they get satisfaction out of helping others who are starting out.

The Electrical Trainee course is clearly not good enough, but I think you should have given your friend the correct information from which he could have then have made an informed decision.

The government is to blame for allowing this course to be run, not myself for taking advantage of it. This has led to a huge increase in my life fulfillment and I haven't killed anyone yet.

No disrespect intented, but i dont want to be a minicab driver!

Mate my tester cost £850 so i dont know what sort of tools you are buying and i have got over a grands worth of plant which is just the bare minimum i feel is neccessary to undertake any job that i may come across.You try slinging a vice and bender and cable jacks and chop saw inside your car and see how long it lasts.I have yet to find a time served spark who gets satisfaction out of helping someone out who has done a micky mouse course and is contributing to lowering rates of pay in the industry.

I agree with you the Government is responsible for the downskilling of our trade not anyone trying to better themselves, but someone who has done a 6 month course cannot expect to be regarded as being at the same standard as someone who has done a 5 year apprenticeship

I have lost count of the times i have turned up on a site on a monday morning and there are 10 or so new starts and i get paired up randomly by the foreman with some muppet with a CK bag and a brand new set of tools who tells me he is a spark.All he possesses is a certificate from some training provider i have never heard of ,the most basic NVQ level,the building regs and 17th edition and knows how do do a bit of plastic conduit and a bit of twin and earth and cant even make off an armoured or set a bit of trunking.You find yourself doing all the work while this bod acts as a labourer but still gets the same money as you.Then the foreman turns up and gives you a rollicking because not a lot is geting done.Now you cant grass the bloke up and say he is useless so you end up knocking your pipe out doing 2 mens work
Or you go on a job and you have these Electrical Trainee running round like blue arsed flies thinking its great they are geting £95 a day because thier whole life they have worked in a factory or as a security guard and to them £95 a day is money they could never have dreamed of earning.When you tell them to slow down so as not to knock the job out or the foreman has offered you to work the weekend ,working a full shift for flat rate and you are telling them to tell the foreman to poke it they look at you all confused

I wouldnt dream of doing a short course for a couple of grand and thinking i could go and call myself a Doctor or Accountant or Architect or Solicitor and enter the industry on level terms as a fully qualified and trained Professional.Nor would i expect to enter thier profession and be welcomed with open arms and be paid the same

Any spark who thinks its great that semi skilled people are entering the industry and driving pay rates down is like a Turkey voting for Christmas


.I think anyone who gets mugged off paying for one of these courses is a victim of these parasites who run these courses just the same as we are the victims of the same parasites who run these agencies and payment companies

 

[MDJ]

Mate my tester cost £850 so i dont know what sort of tools you are buying

I have £5ks worth, what did you buy?

 

[Engineer54]

My argument with these fast trackers is this, ...They are practising what is a skilled trade in unsuspecting customers homes with the minimal of the knowledge required and in most cases no practical experience. How in god's name, can these people be deemed competent by organisations that have been put in place to supposedly monitor and ensure competency of Actual electricians?? ....Safety, what the hells that then??

Sorry, but the common excuse of ''i can't do apprenticeship or other equivalent training as i have a family to provide for''!! Well if you can't, or are not prepared to put the time into a career change for one reason or another. Don't come into a trade/profession that requires that time to be trained to a proficient level. Every single qualified electrician has had to put that time and effort into his trade at one time or another, more often than not, at less than decent wages too.
My answer is ...for god's sake go out and find another career change, preferably one that wont put clients or their homes at risk from your lack of training!!

 

[flyingsausage]

Mate my tester cost £850 so i dont know what sort of tools you are buying and i have got over a grands worth of plant which is just the bare minimum i feel is neccessary to undertake any job that i may come across.You try slinging a vice and bender and cable jacks and chop saw inside your car and see how long it lasts.I have yet to find a time served spark who gets satisfaction out of helping someone out who has done a micky mouse course and is contributing to lowering rates of pay in the industry.

I agree with you the Government is responsible for the downskilling of our trade not anyone trying to better themselves, but someone who has done a 6 month course cannot expect to be regarded as being at the same standard as someone who has done a 5 year apprenticeship

I have lost count of the times i have turned up on a site on a monday morning and there are 10 or so new starts and i get paired up randomly by the foreman with some muppet with a CK bag and a brand new set of tools who tells me he is a spark.All he possesses is a certificate from some training provider i have never heard of ,the most basic NVQ level,the building regs and 17th edition and knows how do do a bit of plastic conduit and a bit of twin and earth and cant even make off an armoured or set a bit of trunking.You find yourself doing all the work while this bod acts as a labourer but still gets the same money as you.Then the foreman turns up and gives you a rollicking because not a lot is geting done.Now you cant grass the bloke up and say he is useless so you end up knocking your pipe out doing 2 mens work
Or you go on a job and you have these Electrical Trainee running round like blue arsed flies thinking its great they are geting £95 a day because thier whole life they have worked in a factory or as a security guard and to them £95 a day is money they could never have dreamed of earning.When you tell them to slow down so as not to knock the job out or the foreman has offered you to work the weekend ,working a full shift for flat rate and you are telling them to tell the foreman to poke it they look at you all confused

I wouldnt dream of doing a short course for a couple of grand and thinking i could go and call myself a Doctor or Accountant or Architect or Solicitor and enter the industry on level terms as a fully qualified and trained Professional.Nor would i expect to enter thier profession and be welcomed with open arms and be paid the same

Any spark who thinks its great that semi skilled people are entering the industry and driving pay rates down is like a Turkey voting for Christmas


.I think anyone who gets mugged off paying for one of these courses is a victim of these parasites who run these courses just the same as we are the victims of the same parasites who run these agencies and payment companies

I agree 100%

It is hard for a spark to make a decent living these days and these monkeys and all the labourers that have a 17th Edition ticket and think that they are sparks.
The average contractor loves this and employs this lot through an agency for buttons and can pump them if they are no use.

This has a drastic knock on effect for sparks that have a wife and kids and a mortage, as these sparks like everyone else has to make a decent amount every week to keep their heads above water.With most companies not interested in direct employment and using agencies and paying buttons for experienced men this makes life hard.
When agencies can now employ sparks for £8 (and monkeys that have made up a cv saying that they are a spark) jump on these jobs it DOES have an effect on the rest of us,when more and more jobs are advertised at rates that are just not worth taking.This will catch up with the monkeys through time as they will soon drag most sparks jobs down to rates they will not even work for/

I know some young sparks that have been forced to leave the trade )all time served) in the quest for full time work with a decent wage and a future. This is also affecting all sparks of all ages who have now been forced to work as taxi drivers and take jobs in unskilled fields as a way to earn a wage.

I have no problem with people wanting to better themselves but they all seem to think that getting a trade and being a spark is an easy route to a life a well paying job,when it is just not going to happen.
There are tens of thousands of sparks out there on the dole or struggling to make ends meet as there are to many sparks for the amount of work out there and others coming into the trade and not starting from the bottom but wanting to start at the top are pulling us all down.

- - - Updated - - -

Mate my tester cost £850 so i dont know what sort of tools you are buying and i have got over a grands worth of plant which is just the bare minimum i feel is neccessary to undertake any job that i may come across.You try slinging a vice and bender and cable jacks and chop saw inside your car and see how long it lasts.I have yet to find a time served spark who gets satisfaction out of helping someone out who has done a micky mouse course and is contributing to lowering rates of pay in the industry.

I agree with you the Government is responsible for the downskilling of our trade not anyone trying to better themselves, but someone who has done a 6 month course cannot expect to be regarded as being at the same standard as someone who has done a 5 year apprenticeship

I have lost count of the times i have turned up on a site on a monday morning and there are 10 or so new starts and i get paired up randomly by the foreman with some muppet with a CK bag and a brand new set of tools who tells me he is a spark.All he possesses is a certificate from some training provider i have never heard of ,the most basic NVQ level,the building regs and 17th edition and knows how do do a bit of plastic conduit and a bit of twin and earth and cant even make off an armoured or set a bit of trunking.You find yourself doing all the work while this bod acts as a labourer but still gets the same money as you.Then the foreman turns up and gives you a rollicking because not a lot is geting done.Now you cant grass the bloke up and say he is useless so you end up knocking your pipe out doing 2 mens work
Or you go on a job and you have these Electrical Trainee running round like blue arsed flies thinking its great they are geting £95 a day because thier whole life they have worked in a factory or as a security guard and to them £95 a day is money they could never have dreamed of earning.When you tell them to slow down so as not to knock the job out or the foreman has offered you to work the weekend ,working a full shift for flat rate and you are telling them to tell the foreman to poke it they look at you all confused

I wouldnt dream of doing a short course for a couple of grand and thinking i could go and call myself a Doctor or Accountant or Architect or Solicitor and enter the industry on level terms as a fully qualified and trained Professional.Nor would i expect to enter thier profession and be welcomed with open arms and be paid the same

Any spark who thinks its great that semi skilled people are entering the industry and driving pay rates down is like a Turkey voting for Christmas


.I think anyone who gets mugged off paying for one of these courses is a victim of these parasites who run these courses just the same as we are the victims of the same parasites who run these agencies and payment companies

I agree 100%

It is hard for a spark to make a decent living these days and these monkeys and all the labourers that have a 17th Edition ticket and think that they are sparks.
The average contractor loves this and employs this lot through an agency for buttons and can pump them if they are no use.

This has a drastic knock on effect for sparks that have a wife and kids and a mortage, as these sparks like everyone else has to make a decent amount every week to keep their heads above water.With most companies not interested in direct employment and using agencies and paying buttons for experienced men this makes life hard.
When agencies can now employ sparks for £8 (and monkeys that have made up a cv saying that they are a spark) jump on these jobs it DOES have an effect on the rest of us,when more and more jobs are advertised at rates that are just not worth taking.This will catch up with the monkeys through time as they will soon drag most sparks jobs down to rates they will not even work for/

I know some young sparks that have been forced to leave the trade )all time served) in the quest for full time work with a decent wage and a future. This is also affecting all sparks of all ages who have now been forced to work as taxi drivers and take jobs in unskilled fields as a way to earn a wage.

I have no problem with people wanting to better themselves but they all seem to think that getting a trade and being a spark is an easy route to a life a well paying job,when it is just not going to happen.
There are tens of thousands of sparks out there on the dole or struggling to make ends meet as there are to many sparks for the amount of work out there and others coming into the trade and not starting from the bottom but wanting to start at the top are pulling us all down.

 

[flyingsausage]

An to be an electrician you need to be a skilled man and know your trade inside out.As well as beware your actions could kill.

You do not learn much on a months course.

 

[Engineer54]

An to be an electrician you need to be a skilled man and know your trade inside out.As well as beware your actions could kill.

You do not learn much on a months course.

Even less doing a 17 day course!! lol!! It's total nonsense all round, is what it is!!