110v circuit in workshop.

[gutterball]

Hi I have been asked by an American client if it is possible to install a 110v circuit in his workshop using American outlets.
Any advice on the regs (or lack of) for this and a source for a suitable transformer would be appreciated.

 

[telectrix]

what level of power does he require, how many amps?

 

[IQ Electrical]

Hi I have been asked by an American client if it is possible to install a 110v circuit in his workshop using American outlets.
Any advice on the regs (or lack of) for this and a source for a suitable transformer would be appreciated.

511.1

Where equipment complying with a foreign standard which in turn is based on an IEC standard is specified, the designer must verify that the equipment is at least as safe as similar equipment complying with the relevant British or Harmonised Standard.

511.2

It is the designers responsibility to ensure that equipment they specify, which is not to a British or Harmonised Standard, provides the required performance and degree of protection. BS7671 does not insist on approval or certification of the equipment to the relevant Standard but this may be required in some cases by legislation or by the client.

 

[gutterball]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] telectrix[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Not sure of power needed He was talking about a couple of saws, a drill and some chargers and bits and pieces plugged in. He's using a (cube) generator now.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] IQ Electrical[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He is going to bring American outlets, back boxes etc over for me to install. I assume (yes I know you shouldn’t assume) that if they are up to US code they would meet ours.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I was also thinking something along the lines of 411.3.3 use under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons. I know that is for RCD protection, but He is going to be the only one using it and He's not the sort to do something stupid.[/FONT]

 

[malcolmsanford]

If it's a workshop within a domestic situation, ie a shed attached to his house then you may fall foul of the skilled person thing if anything happened so look into that.

If it is a commercial setting then your fine on both 411.3.3 and 522.6.7 but as it's commercial then most likely it would be surface anyways.

I'm a bit confused why the guy is insisting on American fittings, If the machines have moulded plugs on them with American plugs then they can be cut off and fitted with proper 110volt CEEform plugs used for the purpose. As he is taking the appliances out of the States to the UK his warrenty is voided anyways. Also what happens if a US wall socket fails, what is he going to do send to the States for another. What if after a few months he buys another tool here in the UK is he going to cut the plug off, void warrenty, to fit an American plug.

Also in the States their 110 volt is a 2 wire system of 110v LINE to NEUTRAL, whereas here he would need a transformer which will give him 55-0-55. Though it should not be adversely different it will be enough to give him poor performance and eventually life expectancy of the appliance.

Though we always want to do what the customer wants, perhaps it is best sometimes to advise them of another path.

 

[Sintra]

US appliances are also 60 Hertz so a standard 110V site transformer would be no good for US machines. As Malcolm has said you would have poor performance from the machinery. I would do a bit of stuff in test workshops where a 120V US supply is required and what we do is fit a US pdu from olsen supplied from a transformer.

 

[gutterball]

Hi guys I’ve been waiting for him to get back to me, He’s in the states just now. Getting parts is not a problem he is back and forth all the time. He was talking about a transformer to convert from UK 230 to US 110. He was saying that tools are a lot cheaper over there and if something breaks he can just take it back, He also may move back to the states permanently at some point that’s why He’s not keen on modifying them.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Wouldn't this be a wonderful industry without customers

 

[gutterball]

Hi, went to have a chat with him today. the workshop is a old stone build store shed about 30 yards from the house. He is framing out the walls with 4*2s with kingspan type insulation and plasterboard on top.
The electrical work he needs is a supply from the house to the workshop, a 230v circuit for lights and a circuit for sockets fed off of a 230v 50hz uk to 110v 60hz us transformer.
I have advised him that it won't comply with uk code but he still wants to go ahead. I have decided to go ahead with the instal, I've done work for him for the last couple of years and he is a good customer. Plus I would sooner do the work myself and know it was done properly rather than him hiring an unknown to do it.

 

[johnboy6083]

so are you going to install an inverter, to change the frequency, as in my experience, inverters cannot increase frequency, just reduce it. another option would be a motor generator set, with some sort of gearbox between. this is the way they used to produce DC supplys from AC, before inverters were as common.

ill be interested in how you solve this one.

All the best, and merry christmas,
John

 

[ian.settle1]

If the sockets do not have a CE mark on them then you as the designer/installer have a duty to ensure that they are fit for purpose (either of the same or better standard which would be fitted in this country) under European law if they are not then you leave yourself open to prosecution should something go wrong.

See link http://www.cemark.co.uk/ce_marking_guides_uk.html

By installing a 230v to 110v transformer this will not change the frequency it will still be 50Hz, to obtain 60 Hz you will need to fit either a static or rotary converter to get the 60 Hz required.

Also as this is outside you will need to notify the LABC if you are not in one off the scams which I think they will take one look and kick it in the head.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I believe there is such a thing as a frequency converter, similar to an inverter, but can change the frequency do a google and you will find some.

 

[WDMDL]

Think about it another way.
Most of the tools will have "universal" motors. They don't really care if they have 50Hz, 60Hz, or DC.
Only machines with synchronous motors, eg induction motors, will be adversely affected and will run at 1500/3000rpm, rather than 1800/3600rpm.

The machine will not care if it is fed 110V from an earthed Neutral or 110V as 55-0-55V as in UK RLVS.

So, install to UK RLVS standards with a transformer suitable for the load. Your work will be compliant.

Then, leave it up to the customer to source or make up some US to CEEForm adaptor leads.

I have a UK 6-gang trailing extension lead with a US plug that I take on holiday with me...saves carrying half a dozen travel adaptors that just won't stay in US sockets because of the weight of the UK plug 3 inches out...and aren't "grounded" anyway.

Simon.

 

[Canoeboy]

Hi, went to have a chat with him today. the workshop is a old stone build store shed about 30 yards from the house. He is framing out the walls with 4*2s with kingspan type insulation and plasterboard on top.
The electrical work he needs is a supply from the house to the workshop, a 230v circuit for lights and a circuit for sockets fed off of a 230v 50hz uk to 110v 60hz us transformer.
I have advised him that it won't comply with uk code but he still wants to go ahead. I have decided to go ahead with the instal, I've done work for him for the last couple of years and he is a good customer. Plus I would sooner do the work myself and know it was done properly rather than him hiring an unknown to do it.

A transformer will not alter the frequency from 50 to 60 Hz

so are you going to install an inverter, to change the frequency, as in my experience, inverters cannot increase frequency, just reduce it. another option would be a motor generator set, with some sort of gearbox between. this is the way they used to produce DC supplys from AC, before inverters were as common.

ill be interested in how you solve this one.

All the best, and merry christmas,
John

An invertor will increase the frequency if you buy the correct one

 

[johnboy6083]

ive never seen one, but ive never needed a VSD to increase frequency, we used to use them for starting/stopping pumps, to get rid of water hammer.

going to google it now