17th edition Split board issues.

[SafetyFirst]

Hi guys n gals, i've fitted another general electric 17th edition split board. It's the 3rd one i've fitted and the 3rd one that i've had problems with.
Haven't changed many boards over, only ever done so for friends or family who've needed/wanted too, i still have my rewireble box taking care of things in my bungalow without any probs

The first board change i did after much head scratching i found a borrowed neutral with the lighting from down/upstairs after grouping lighting circuits onto one RCD. Also the two way switch was dodgy, all fixed and no problems reported six months down the line-all good.

Second board change, everything worked bar upstairs lighting, megga tested and found a very low reading between E-N so needed further investigating. Haven't had the time to sort that one yet but there's no rush as buildings going to be redundant for sometime yet.

Both jobs for my sis and bro in law.

Moving onto todays, for a friend of mine, currently living there. Moved in just before christmas, have changed all the lights over to new shiney one's. Changed all light switches to chrome and awaiting to do the same with all sockets.

Anyways the building is fairly modern, built in '98, old hrc fuses with 2 30A MCB's protected by a 30mA RCD. They served a ring for upstairs/downstairs general bedroom/living room sockets.
The other ring serves kitchen/utility/garage sockets.

The way i setup new 17th edition board was to split the rings onto either RCD's and what this results in is having just upstairs lights and kitchen sockets on one RCD that trips when powered. The other RCD (1) has downstairs lights/smoke detectors/genereal sockets/cooker (only oven 10Amps)/water heater (13Amp). Doesn't trip and all working fine.

After much head tearing the RCD (2) doesn't like the kitchen ring or the upstairs lights individually.

Have used old boards copper to create a temporary by-pass for the two circuits that are not liked by the RCD till i have time next weekend to megga those cables and further investigate this problem. Whats baffling me is the fact there wasn't a problem with the old RCD protecting the kitchen ring.

Imbalance issue?

What a mare eh!

These fully loaded RCD boards can be a blessing in disguise as there has to be a few issues with the wiring on the kitchen ring and upstairs lights. I just wish i could have one that goes straight forward for once!!

 

[SafetyFirst]

I just think its ironic that the op's name is safteyfirst yet he has left a house with sockets with no RCD protection. The kitchen too!

Well i was waiting for someone smarmy to bring that up. I best change my username then eh?

What you guys must remember is this aint a client i've left in a pickle, it's a friend who was with me whilst i had the problem and i've fully explained it to him and his wife. What everyone must realise is that nothing can be more dangerous as it was before, i have not re-wired the place so if there's a borrowed neutral then thats existed long before they bought the house.

I've improved the safety of the house as now all but two cct's are protected by an RCD, unlike just two as before!


Btw there was a time before RCD's infact even before earthing in lighting design so did everything stop in those days?

If daylight never ran out and had more time i'd have ran tests but my mate just wanted everything on for the time being so TEMPORARILY i've by passed RCD for two cct's.

Arrest me, lock me up and throw away the key.

I work during the week and next time i'll have a chance with daylight is sat morning!

 

[Hawk81]

I take great offence at being called smarmy!

 

[SafetyFirst]

Thanks everyone for your help especially spark68. I hold my hands up on this i should have ran tests proir but have went gung ho hoping all would be ok. If i had my own business i'd have been at this place for a few days but with working mon-fri and popping over every now and then the time isn't there to get things done as i would like.

I know this is dragging it out now, i'll make sure i at least IR test everything before i undertake another board change.

Thing is i really never expected a problem on any of the rings as they originally were RCD protected. *confused*

 

[SafetyFirst]

I take great offence at being called smarmy!

Please try not to lose sleep over it. I won't.

It's true though.

 

[1shortcircuit]

If daylight never ran out and had more time i'd have ran tests but my mate just wanted everything on for the time being

You may be interested in looking at my thread " Fed up with working in the dark "

:thumbsup

 

[SafetyFirst]

You may be interested in looking at my thread " Fed up with working in the dark "

:thumbsup

Where is it?

Link plz 1SC i'm lazy as you can already tell by this RCD board change failure lol.

 

[1shortcircuit]

Where is it?

Link plz 1SC i'm lazy as you can already tell by this RCD board change failure lol.

Uno Linko

 

[SafetyFirst]

Right guys, i'm going first thing in the morn to run some tests ie IR (megga) tests etc. I'm going to unplug all sockets proir to testing ring mains. As for the lighting cct's, there's some fancy lights i've now installed including spots with transformers so to save on time rather than disconnecting each lamp and connections to transformers i'm going to avoid testing between L-N, just run IR tests between L-E and N-E.

This is the norm in this situation guys?

I'll flick two way landing light sw also and re-test.

Anything else you guys recommend?

 

[SafetyFirst]

Update:- Have been today and did some testing.

No borrowed neutrals exist.

Tried all lighting on same neutral side upstairs lights still weren't happy fed via the RCD, cct tripped straight away as before. Still works with MCB with no RCD protection.

Tested Kitchen ring, wirings sound good IR results and went round with martindales, all skts wired correctly. Transferred ring onto RCD protected side, powered up and plugged and tested each appliance one at a time. Had no problems. (It was very cold last week during board change), possibly had lower IR back then with damp, or there may still be an issue when i come to place 2nd RCD back into board and have rings on seperate RCD's (imbalance issue?) as ideally i want upstairs lighting with downstairs kitchen ring and downstairs lighting with upstairs + (rest of house) ring.

Downstairs lights wiring sound.

Upstairs lights, very low reading between E-N (short), L-E not so clever either of just 28Mohms. Wonder if i have a dodgy JB/light fitting somewhere. Have investigated on suite upstairs inc shaver socket, light fitting connections weren't great but wasn't that. Left in connector block as they need a new light fitting.

Had to leave job earlier than would have liked, back there tomorrow. Normally i'd split the cct in half but as i don't know how it's been wired i'm just checking existing points of interest that i never ammended. Have yet to check spotlights in toilet, loft light and outside lights so there will hopefully be something within them. If not it's a mistake i've made somewhere in fitting the new lights upstairs. Failing that.......which i'm dreading is that all lights are wired soundly and fault exists somewhere i can't get at ie within walls or under floors. Eeeek what's the score if thats the case then? Rewire? I'd love to but thats the last thing the homeowners would want. Surely if tested this would be an instant fail? If left on normal MCB way unprotected by an RCD working but with a fault somewhere? Potentially dangerous and something i'd not like left.

Oh and the smoke detector cct has a very low reading between L-N. Hopefully thats just a dodgy smoke head, otherwise i'll just advise them getting battery fitted one's. Not good but only option if wirings dodgy.

Never again am i not going to test existing wiring before even changing a single socket or switch!!!

I've learnt my lesson........ the hard way!

Anymore advice forthcoming would be much appreciated cheers.

 

[Des 56]

Did you carry out an insulation resistance test between live and neutral with the smoke alarms inserted ?

 

[SafetyFirst]

Yes i haven't took into consideration that they can give false readings have i, thanks Des. Should have disconnected them. I did have it set on 250v from the previous lighting testing hopefully haven't buggered the detectors, thats all i need now!

 

[Knobhead]

Ye Gods! I despair, I really do!

 

[Dan the spark]

You might have wanted to have dropped those heads out mate, you say outside lighting is on the circuit that keeps tripping? Have a look around these, had one the other day where guttering had been over flowing and filled the terminal box up wit water, customer failed to mention that they had had gutters repaired cos of this= me walking round testing for 2hrs to find the fault

 

[SafetyFirst]

Ye Gods! I despair, I really do!

Aye i know, i won't have any hair left on my head before this jobs sorted. Can of worms just aint in it! I'm my own worst enemy sometimes. So you reckon the detectors will have had it then?

 

[SafetyFirst]

You might have wanted to have dropped those heads out mate, you say outside lighting is on the circuit that keeps tripping? Have a look around these, had one the other day where guttering had been over flowing and filled the terminal box up wit water, customer failed to mention that they had had gutters repaired cos of this= me walking round testing for 2hrs to find the fault

Cheers Dan, like i say those are the point's i want to concentrate on, there's 3 lights outside the back garden, they even have their own trunking run, will give it a gander tomorrow. How will i know if those detectors are fried now?