20% pir

[sparkey58]

since being self employed i am now only NICEIC domestic...but used to do PIR when i worked for a full NICEIC company about 10 years ago...and i used to do a lot of pub testing for entertainments licences
so am a bit out of touch.
i was called in today to do some work in a pub which has just been taken over [been stood empty for a year] mostly in the cellar and outside...but the state of the existing electrics was appalling and being there half an hour spotted at least 10 defects...i spoke to the new landlord who said the pub had just had a 20% pir and passed...we always used to do a full test...is this 20% correct? as the inspector obviously never went in the cellar, or if he did, did not turn the light on!

 

[rich.250]

The problem is, if that's what the customer wants then it can be limited to that on the report, in the limitations or extent.
Also a lot do this to get the job as they quote it cheaper and do 20% of the work LOL

 

[Octopus]

Interesting, surely 20% would suggest they should inspect 20% of the accessories of each and every circuit!

 

[Guest55]

Ask to see the PIR
20% could mean visual sample rate of 20% of fittings , which is about right on a commercial test.
But if its just 20% test of all the circuits then thats not worth a crap.
If the council have asked the landlord to get the inspection done then they will want all circuits tested.
As for your work , just complete as normal , give certs to landlord , and just point out the defects the other electrician missed and let him deal with it.

 

[rich.250]

Interesting, surely 20% would suggest they should inspect 20% of the accessories of each and every circuit!

You'd be surprised at what goes on in my part of the world haha. Cheapest quote gets work. Right or wrong.

 

[sparkey58]

thanks for the replies...i think the brewery ordered the test and the new tenant with his pass certificate thought all is well...he was a bit upset when i pointed out some of the more serious defects...as he now has to pay me to correct them. before i add the anything to the circuits affected.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Write a letter explaining why your doing only 20 percent and get the landlord to sign it because if the pub burns down the first thing they'll ask in court is why did the electrician only test 20 percent and the letter will keep you out of jail lol but true

 

[jay sean]

By rights if its 20% test, you should over 5 years test all the ccts

 

[Strima]

By rights if its 20% test, you should over 5 years test all the ccts

Which will never happen as everyone will test the easy circuits and go home early...

 

[Plonker 3]

Which will never happen as everyone will test the easy circuits and go home early...

Depends, if a proper agreement is made between the parties then it is possible to do. I worked in the prison service where this happened and it worked very well, although mainly down to different buildings being highlighted for testing each year.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Unless the inspection is done on a rolling 20% per year basis then the percentage 'sampling' rate should only be applied to the detailed inspection of accessories and luminaires.

This sampling rate is used because 100% dismantling/disconnecting of accessories and luminares can actually introduce faults to the installation, never mind the practicalities.
If the agreed sample rate then reveals an unusually high level of defects then the sample percentage should be increased to allow the inspector to arrive at an informed opinion on the installation condition.

 

[Octopus]

IMHO an EICR must always include a full schedule of test results for ALL the circuits.

Anything less would render said EICR suitable for conversion into a paper aeroplane!


That said where does the "humble" homeowner turn for advice on what should be included in an EICR?

 

[Strima]

Depends, if a proper agreement is made between the parties then it is possible to do. I worked in the prison service where this happened and it worked very well, although mainly down to different buildings being highlighted for testing each year.

Agree with you there mate, properly supervised buildings with robust maintenance schedules will always come up trumps.

As for 'other' premises that require annual testing without good systems in place is where the fault lies. Owner/manager that doesn't give a ----, just wants a bit of paper at the end of the day and doesn't even provide previous reports to work from, where do you start? Down to the individual tester, Fridays reports don't stand much of a chance.

 

[RISElectrical]

For an old company I worked at with a very large pub chains maintenance contract it was written into the contract that PIRs were to be 30% done on a yearly basis.

That translated to an electrical test of 30% and a 30% visual of accessories only on the circuits tested.

Theory being that next year the 30% should be a different selection of circuits with the exception that any emergency lighting circuits in a public access area were done every time to satisfy the PEL

 

[Paul.M]

GN3 3.8.2. This pub has been stood empty for a year, only a 20% i&t has been carried out and the poor integrity of the install you have seen I would demand a 100% test and the above reg will back you up on this one.

20% tests are ok if a professional planned schedule is in place, sounds like it isn't in this case. You've done the correct thing in my opinion.

Ps how bad are the defects?