2391 Practical - Gone in 60 Seconds

[ron55]

Well almost!

Hi all, I am new to the forum (excellent by the way) and this is my first post so be gentle. It is long so please excuse that but I hope this post is of some help to those heading towards the 2391 practical assessment.

Firstly, a little bit of background about myself to give you a bit more of an understanding as to where I’m coming from. It is not meant as “The big I am” so don’t take it that way.

I am 51 and for the last 5 years I have been importing American Cars and rewiring them to be able to use on our roads. The 20 years before that I have been in electronics including having my own manufacturing place before it lost a fortune. I did my electrical apprenticeship at ICI from 74-78 and the last time I worked full time as a spark was in 1982 (in a 12 month stupor in New Orleans, one long party with the job getting in the way!)

Over the years I have always had the sparking qualifications to fall back on and have done numerous rewires and industrial work including the full installation at my factory. Because I was never full time I used a friends company for the installation tests after I had done the work without any problems. All well and good until the recent global downturn and American cars stopped selling and I figured I would bring my sparking qualifications up to date, especially as I was fully conversant with the 14th edition!! I might add that I was pretty hacked off to find my old qualifications counted for *** all.

So I booked on a 2 week course at Technique Training (highly recommended) in Chesterfield mainly for the 17th and inspection & test. A big eye opener it turned out to be with me learning far more than I expected to. No problems up until the 2391 practical assessment and then the fun begins. One guy was out at the first stage for not identifying all the visual problems and another was out for not being able to interpret the insulation resistance tests (N to E fault). I think this is right because they are basic things. So to me and the big test on the 3 phase board with the sub board which I thought would be fairly straight forward so you can imagine my horror at being terminated after 10 minutes!! The errors where a combination of comical and stupid.

The rig was meant to represent a downstairs shop and upstairs flat. When the test began the assessor asked me if I wanted to ask him anything so I asked how his wife was, where he lived and when it was last tested and he replied “I don’t know mate, I just bought the place.” Mmm a bit of roll playing, I hope he doesn’t pull out a school girls outfit for me to put on.

After I tested dead I started the continuity tests and he asked me if I was happy to continue with these tests and in words I can’t remember he was prompting me not to do so. This totally threw me and I started looking for the bleeding obvious but couldn’t find the bleeding obvious. For reasons unknown to me I took the front off the sub board, still confused and then went back to the main board and that was when he terminated the test. The failures were:

1) Not asking permission to switch off although in real life I have never not done this!

2) Incorrect testing dead. Two fold, I did forget to test to neutral - stupid. But the other was more interesting. After isolating the supply, I never checked on all the circuits to see if they were dead. You may think he was being picky here but two years ago I was nearly killed by a borrowed neutral putting 190v through me via an immersion heater so I couldn’t fault his decision.

3) Putting the voltage tester down and not checking it was still working when using it a second time.

4) This is the comical one. Removing the cover from the sub board, leaving it off and then coming “downstairs” to work on the main board! Maybe petty but I can also see his point of view that I had never correctly tested for borrowed neutrals. In real life I would not leave a board uncovered but this is a examination environment so you have to think little different.

So on to the retest in 2 weeks and more fun - how many goes can you have?!!!!!

Cheers, Ron

 

[johnnyb]

When we did ours you paid a retest fee and set a new date with the training centre. Didn,t need to pay ours though, we passed, but it was a bit nerve racking as there were 4x modules in a line and when you were happy to proceed you let the accessor know and away you went, the lad next to who i knew was physically shakin with nerves, he failed.

 

[kung]

Dam they say its a sod of an exam ! think i will do the brick laying course now !

 

[prideofengland]

At one of our local colleges they always call you over to another part of the room during testing, if you dont put the cover on the DB you've failed! Seems a bit sneaky but most people who go there know about this in advance.

Mine was a bit nerve wracking, the main isolator to the test rig was knackered had to wait an hour for the maintenance spark, who of course didnot have one, so had to simulate safe isolation and by pass the isolator for live testing, what a farce!

 

[maddfridge]

Well almost!

Hi all, I am new to the forum (excellent by the way) and this is my first post so be gentle. It is long so please excuse that but I hope this post is of some help to those heading towards the 2391 practical assessment.

Firstly, a little bit of background about myself to give you a bit more of an understanding as to where I’m coming from. It is not meant as “The big I am” so don’t take it that way.

I am 51 and for the last 5 years I have been importing American Cars and rewiring them to be able to use on our roads. The 20 years before that I have been in electronics including having my own manufacturing place before it lost a fortune. I did my electrical apprenticeship at ICI from 74-78 and the last time I worked full time as a spark was in 1982 (in a 12 month stupor in New Orleans, one long party with the job getting in the way!)

Over the years I have always had the sparking qualifications to fall back on and have done numerous rewires and industrial work including the full installation at my factory. Because I was never full time I used a friends company for the installation tests after I had done the work without any problems. All well and good until the recent global downturn and American cars stopped selling and I figured I would bring my sparking qualifications up to date, especially as I was fully conversant with the 14th edition!! I might add that I was pretty hacked off to find my old qualifications counted for *** all.

So I booked on a 2 week course at Technique Training (highly recommended) in Chesterfield mainly for the 17th and inspection & test. A big eye opener it turned out to be with me learning far more than I expected to. No problems up until the 2391 practical assessment and then the fun begins. One guy was out at the first stage for not identifying all the visual problems and another was out for not being able to interpret the insulation resistance tests (N to E fault). I think this is right because they are basic things. So to me and the big test on the 3 phase board with the sub board which I thought would be fairly straight forward so you can imagine my horror at being terminated after 10 minutes!! The errors where a combination of comical and stupid.

The rig was meant to represent a downstairs shop and upstairs flat. When the test began the assessor asked me if I wanted to ask him anything so I asked how his wife was, where he lived and when it was last tested and he replied “I don’t know mate, I just bought the place.” Mmm a bit of roll playing, I hope he doesn’t pull out a school girls outfit for me to put on.

After I tested dead I started the continuity tests and he asked me if I was happy to continue with these tests and in words I can’t remember he was prompting me not to do so. This totally threw me and I started looking for the bleeding obvious but couldn’t find the bleeding obvious. For reasons unknown to me I took the front off the sub board, still confused and then went back to the main board and that was when he terminated the test. The failures were:

1) Not asking permission to switch off although in real life I have never not done this!

2) Incorrect testing dead. Two fold, I did forget to test to neutral - stupid. But the other was more interesting. After isolating the supply, I never checked on all the circuits to see if they were dead. You may think he was being picky here but two years ago I was nearly killed by a borrowed neutral putting 190v through me via an immersion heater so I couldn’t fault his decision.

3) Putting the voltage tester down and not checking it was still working when using it a second time.

4) This is the comical one. Removing the cover from the sub board, leaving it off and then coming “downstairs” to work on the main board! Maybe petty but I can also see his point of view that I had never correctly tested for borrowed neutrals. In real life I would not leave a board uncovered but this is a examination environment so you have to think little different.

So on to the retest in 2 weeks and more fun - how many goes can you have?!!!!!

Cheers, Ron

hi there

when i did mine in 2004 the crafty so and so put a fault on the main switch for the insulation test.
tested the tails lovely but just about to fill in the paperwork stopped for a minute. This seemed to perfect
to me looked at the tails the went in to the board and out to the top of the cons unit isolator a perfect hacksaw cut across the tails.

All you had tested was a half the tails.

was told not to tell anyone following at all if i wanted to pass !!

Boy was is fun watching them trying to figure it out on live testing

Anyway he was a good old boy and explained when he was testing an installation once they had done this so the meter folks if they looked down the back would see tails connected in to the block from the top but others had been spliced below into the back of the outgoing side of the supply fuse holder
Cut out the bakerlite backing of the fuse holder to by pass part of the meter.

so cons unit was split feed if you see some through the meter and other feed to power circuits.
i can see how it was done but Christ that is bl**dy dangerous to say the least

See i still remember it five plus years on

cheers and good luck

ps ten test dead on three phase and do not forget to prove the tester or meter before you use it and after you use it i got pulled on that one.

 

[Spudnik]

As above really.

You should never, EVER, leave a board with the cover off, isolated or not.

This will also get you an instant fail on an assessment too.

Although it is an examination, it is still basically proving how you would operate in the real world.

Good luck with the retest!

 

[ron55]

As above really.

You should never, EVER, leave a board with the cover off, isolated or not.

This will also get you an instant fail on an assessment too.

Although it is an examination, it is still basically proving how you would operate in the real world.

Good luck with the retest!

I can say with all honesty that in 30 years I have never left a board with the cover off and therefore don't agree with the statement that "it is still basically proving how you would operate in the real world"

If it was how I did work then fair enough but this is an exam situation where I am 2 foot away from the unit. As I said, roll playing is the difficult bit for me

Cheers, Ron

 

[iceman]

hi its not the practical thts the problem i passed mine no problem wasnt knowhere near as hard as i expected my examiner disconnected various conductors during dead and live tests and askin me to test, i did and installaion resistance test on a 3036 rewirable fuse board testing the tails found a fault on it had to pull each fuse to found the suspect, thn there was a fault on one of the neutrel conducters, on inspection sight bit theres about 14 faults on tht i missed a couple told the examiner he gave me abit more time to look it wos cross polarity between line and neutrel on a spur hidden behind a screw did my head in tht did lol now thts all done i gotta get threw the theory part thts the ultimate killer, good look out there anyone takin this exam

 

[fivestar]

I did my 2391 in October last year and the trainer could not stress enough the importance of carrying out the basics. That is checking your "approved voltage indicator" is functioning correctly before and after each use, always checking all conductors for dead working, and always asking before switching off, never leaving unattending uncovered DB. I was new to this and went thought the processes in clockwork fashion. There were other far more experienced guys doing this same test and years of experience were working against them because they were not following the process. At least one of these guys (30+ years exp) failed for this reason.

 

[Spudnik]

If it was how I did work then fair enough but this is an exam situation where I am 2 foot away from the unit. As I said, roll playing is the difficult bit for me

Cheers, Ron

Unfortunately Ron, you gotta play by the 'rules'.

I appreciate what you are saying about the role playing, but its the same in every exam center.

I nearly failed because i didnt take the key out of the padlock when locking off. Remembered though, just as i was about to walk away from the board.

 

[pushrod]

Really interesting post Ron and a big insight into what i am intending to let myself in for- thanks.

 

[ron55]

Really interesting post Ron and a big insight into what i am intending to let myself in for- thanks.

Glad to know it's of some use - good luck

Cheers, Ron

 

[rob1967]

I failed my practical test, but I have to be fair the examiner was trying to help and get me through it, We had two lessons where he ran throught the tests ( DEAD AND LIVE TEST ) and did stress the importaint bits like testing the board is live before isolating, asking to isloate and then checking again that it is isolated, locking off putting key in pocket etc etc etc.................. I was more surprised though when I passed my written Exam but alot of the guys failed lol..................

 

[j_mccl]

I passed this couse last october, we had to test for dead on everything that we worked on including the test rigs made for the IR tests that were not connected to enything, the tutors could not stress enough to treat the tests as if it were a real situation. a lot of people on the course with me failed either the practical or written exam, luckily i passed both first time because i would have hated to have had to re-sit either.
the only advice i could give is, for the practical just remember what you have been told and try to be as methodical as possible when doing the testing to be as economical as possible with the time given , as for the written put plenty of time into revising and keep an eye on the clock because i found the time ran out quickly and was writing up untill the last second.

 

[hungy5]

Hi all and welcome ron, good to have someone like you on here...great posed....!!!

I'm thinking to do this course soon. Pass my Part P and 17th edition last summer.
Been busy doing domestic .....lack of commercial and industry etc......had pickup so many bad habits. Managed save abit money to buy a Tester and Guidance Note 3. Going throught the book and get much practise as i can before go for the exam. reading all yours posed had give me abit of idea. Anymore advices is much appreciate !!!