240v Control Curcuit

[Nazza]

Our company is working on a piece of machinery which has come from China.
We are ensuring the electrics are safe.

The control side of the electrics is 240v. All the components in the system are CE marked and from reputable brands.

1 electrician says we should remove all the control system and replace for 24v.

Another says the control system is fine at 240v as long as it is wired up correctly.

The machine is a fairly simple wrapping machine. Functions on the control curcuit include on of buttons etc.

We have been reading the machinery directive and the low voltage directive and all we can find is the phrase "it should be intrinsically safe"

So, my question is whether 240v in a control circuit could be considered safe and legal providing it is wired up correctly and the componenets are reputable brands with CE marks.

 

[Lagentium]

Out of curiosity what is the normal working voltage in China? Are they building machines to suit our market and firing them over? I don't think it's a case of making sure the system complies with legislation over here for a 230v control circuit, rather than thinking would somebody want to buy a machine with a 230v control circuit. Depends on the cost of the equipment, I would be sending down an engineer to have a look at any kit I would be looking at buying if it's top dollar, if there are ones on the market with 24v ones? I know what I'd choose as a buyer really. Darkwood will be along to give his point of view at some point as its area of knowledge really.

 

[Lagentium]

Plus I cant imagine a wrapper being in an IS area, they are usually in a safe zone

 

[Pete999]

Out of curiosity what is the normal working voltage in China? Are they building machines to suit our market and firing them over? I don't think it's a case of making sure the system complies with legislation over here for a 230v control circuit, rather than thinking would somebody want to buy a machine with a 230v control circuit. Depends on the cost of the equipment, I would be sending down an engineer to have a look at any kit I would be looking at buying if it's top dollar, if there are ones on the market with 24v ones? I know what I'd choose as a buyer really. Darkwood will be along to give his point of view at some point as its area of knowledge really.

Complete list: Three-phase electric power (voltages/frequencies) - World Standards - http://www.worldstandards.eu/three-phase-electric-power/

 

[Nazza]

@Lagentium

What is it you have against a 240v control circuit on a machine.

The Chinese do build machines for our market, but they need work doing to them.
Not only to make them safe, but sometimes to make them work.

 

[Besoeker]

http://www.omega.com/temperature/Z/pdf/z131-148.pdf

Spot on.

 

[heggig]

Having worked with machinery imported from China I would be extremely surprised if all the components are actually branded. A good chance they're just copied.

 

[Lagentium]

Nothing against 230v at all mate, I hope you get sorted.

 

[Bobster]

En 60204-1, which the panel should have been built to states the maximum control voltage as 277v

 

[Antony1]

A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem

 

[Bobster]

A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem

I don't think you have much experience in panel design or appropriate regs. As there's far more to it than that.

 

[Antony1]

Far more regarding a 230v control circuit please expand?

 

[davesparks]

A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem

I wouldn't know where to start with machinery control, but even I know that there is a hell of a lot more to it than that!
IP rating and warning labels won't keep operators safe from entrapment, injury and/or death. It takes a lot more in the way of risk assessment and safety system design to achieve a safe piece of machinery.

 

[Antony1]

The question was is a 230v control circuit safe? Which checking the ip ratings of components and warning of the present voltage was what my reply was regarding, I wasn't talking about the rest of the machine obviously there is more to it

 

[LeeH]

Dave is correct, the circuit is only safe it is designed correctly! 230v or not.

Machine safety needs to be take seriously.

 

[Pete999]

A DOL starter has a 230v control circuit in it.

Surely you are checking the machine is fit for purpose and safe, so as long as the panel and components carry a suitable IP rating for the environment and the correct warning labels are in place I cant see the problem

A DOL starter doesn't necessarily have a 230v control