3 speed Extractor fan motor wiring

[Sly1980]

Good day all
I need some help to determine whether this replacement motor would be suitable a a replacement for the existing and now not working extractor motor. Additionally, I would like to know how to wire the new motor if it is suitable. I've attached pics of the motors, and haven't bought the new one yet in case it's not compatible.
I've searched high and low for an exact replacement but nothing is available, especially due to the brand support in the country and the age of the motor.

Blue wire is neutral and the other three and the switched lives for the three speeds.

 

[westward10]

It is a shaded pole motor what is wrong with the old one?

 

[Sly1980]

It is a shaded pole motor what is wrong with the old one?

Old one has a shot coil and is totally dead.

 

[westward10]

Probably wouldn't be hugely expensive to get it rewound.

 

[Sly1980]

Probably wouldn't be hugely expensive to get it rewound.

Went to two armature winders today as well, one said he's not sure if it can be taken apart but didn't really seem interested in a small job and the other said it's not worth their while to rewind it because the wires are thin and keep breaking during the process. Either way, the new motor is about half the estimation the guy gave me to have it rewound (if they could do it)

 

[Avo Mk8]

It looks to me from the pics as if the wiring for the two motors is likely not the same.
For instance, there appears to be a thermal cutout in each, but wired differently in each instance.

The new motor appears to have a more obvious difference in the gauge of the two windings.
You can see the right hand winding has an end at the top tag, taps on the middle two tags, and an end at the bottom.
I can't tell on the left side whether all the tabs have winding connections, or if the middle one is a tap.
Even if I could, I would be reluctant to declare them equivalent.

Can the supplier of the new motor provide a connection diagram showing how it should be connected for 3 speed operation? Failing that, if they know the model of appliance it's for, could you track down how it's connected in that?

Do you know if the proposed replacement has the same direction of rotation - the 'shading' seems to indicate that?

Finally is it clear that with your old appliance the speed control just switches live between the taps (ie the various coloured wires), or does a capacitor (or other component) feature in the circuit?

If it were similar, it could be wired as below, but we need to be more sure of the above issues.

 

[Sly1980]

It looks to me from the pics as if the wiring for the two motors is likely not the same.
For instance, there appears to be a thermal cutout in each, but wired differently in each instance.

The new motor appears to have a more obvious difference in the gauge of the two windings.
You can see the right hand winding has an end at the top tag, taps on the middle two tags, and an end at the bottom.
I can't tell on the left side whether all the tabs have winding connections, or if the middle one is a tap.
Even if I could, I would be reluctant to declare them equivalent.

Can the supplier of the new motor provide a connection diagram showing how it should be connected for 3 speed operation? Failing that, if they know the model of appliance it's for, could you track down how it's connected in that?

Do you know if the proposed replacement has the same direction of rotation - the 'shading' seems to indicate that?

Finally is it clear that with your old appliance the speed control just switches live between the taps (ie the various coloured wires), or does a capacitor (or other component) feature in the circuit?

If it were similar, it could be wired as below, but we need to be more sure of the above issues.
View attachment 119282

Thank you for the very detailed response!
I will ask the supplier for a wiring diagram or alternatively for which appliances the motor is compatible with.
Not sure about the direction of rotation, I'm not even sure how to tell honestly.
With regards to the speed controls, appears to be just switches, the board has quite simple circuitry. I've attached some pics of the board, one switch is for the lights and the others are speed and a seperate switch for off.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Thank you very much for the detailed response! I could ask them tomorrow for a wiring diagram or which appliance it is used in.
As for direction of rotation, I have no clue honestly.
With regards to the switches, they are just on/off switches as far as I can tell, the board has pretty simple circuitry.

Thank you for the very detailed response!
I will ask the supplier for a wiring diagram or alternatively for which appliances the motor is compatible with.
Not sure about the direction of rotation, I'm not even sure how to tell honestly.
With regards to the speed controls, appears to be just switches, the board has quite simple circuitry. I've attached some pics of the board, one switch is for the lights and the others are speed and a seperate switch for off.

Thanks for that.
The back of the PCB shows the brown (live?) gets connected to the switch nearest the bottom for speed 3 (white wire)
If you press the next switch instead, it's connected for speed 2 (red wire)
And pressing the next switch it connects for speed 1 (black wire)

But right now I'm puzzled by the grey wire, which I thought at the motor end seems to be a speed tap, going to where it does (Labelled NM) - the switch at the far end - is that on/off? And then that switch connects the grey wire to the yellow wire - where does the yellow wire go? Is that for the light?
Also what is the smaller switch, one from the end, for? It seems to connect the black wire (speed 1) to nothing!
The blue wire doesn't appear at the PCB - you say it goes to Neutral?

I'm understanding even less than before - not much help I'm afraid
Can you tell us the brand/ model of the unit. Seems to be dated 2012?

This was the sort of arrangement I was expecting (double vision due to excess G&T)

 

[Sly1980]

Thanks for that.
The back of the PCB shows the brown (live?) gets connected to the switch nearest the bottom for speed 3 (white wire)
If you press the next switch instead, it's connected for speed 2 (red wire)
And pressing the next switch it connects for speed 1 (black wire)

But right now I'm puzzled by the grey wire, which I thought at the motor end seems to be a speed tap, going to where it does (Labelled NM) - the switch at the far end - is that on/off? And then that switch connects the grey wire to the yellow wire - where does the yellow wire go? Is that for the light?
Also what is the smaller switch, one from the end, for? It seems to connect the black wire (speed 1) to nothing!
The blue wire doesn't appear at the PCB - you say it goes to Neutral?

I'm understanding even less than before - not much help I'm afraid

Sorry! You have nothing for context. Pretty good determining the speed wires though.
Grey (more violet) is directly from neutral for the light. Yellow is from the transformer for the light. So, the end switch is for the light.
One from the end is the off switch, just disengages any of the active speed switches.
Blue runs directly to neutral for the fan and then the others go back to the main connector block.
I've added some pictures from yesterday for the main connector block, should give a clearer picture. The first picture is the motor and mains in. The second pic is the switch and lights. I've also attached my crude notation on the speed wires colours. Seems that only red changes to grey for the motor connection.

 

[Sly1980]

Sorry! You have nothing for context. Pretty good determining the speed wires though.
Grey (more violet) is directly from neutral for the light. Yellow is from the transformer for the light. So, the end switch is for the light.
One from the end is the off switch, just disengages any of the active speed switches.
Blue runs directly to neutral for the fan and then the others go back to the main connector block.
I've added some pictures from yesterday for the main connector block, should give a clearer picture. The first picture is the motor and mains in. The second pic is the switch and lights. I've also attached my crude notation on the speed wires colours. Seems that only red changes to grey for the motor connection.

Missed the last part of your message, it's an AEG extractor, picture of model attached.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Thanks for the comprehensive response.
In your original post #1 pic of the old motor - is the bottom right tag with the brown(?) wire connected to anything - eg is the copper winding connected there (can't see it), or anything else?
I'll consider it all tomorrow!

 

[Sly1980]

Thanks for the comprehensive response.
In your original post #1 pic of the old motor - is the bottom right tag with the brown(?) wire connected to anything - eg is the copper winding connected there (can't see it), or anything else?
I'll consider it all tomorrow!

Good morning!
Just added more pics of the motor, seems all tabs run into their respective coils.

 

[Sly1980]

Thanks for the comprehensive response.
In your original post #1 pic of the old motor - is the bottom right tag with the brown(?) wire connected to anything - eg is the copper winding connected there (can't see it), or anything else?
I'll consider it all tomorrow!

Good morning
I've been to the armature winder today, unfortunately the old motor can't be rewound. He did, however offer to match the wires on the new motor. I've attached a pic of the wire config, appears exactly as what you @Avo Mk8 specified in your first post! I'm going to write it in now, the spindle is a bit shorter but hopefully it will work out. Will post back with details once done.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Good morning
I've been to the armature winder today, unfortunately the old motor can't be rewound. He did, however offer to match the wires on the new motor. I've attached a pic of the wire config, appears exactly as what you @Avo Mk8 specified in your first post! I'm going to write it in now, the spindle is a bit shorter but hopefully it will work out. Will post back with details once done.

That's good to know!
God luck. Do let us know the outcome!

PS This is just a theory, and as I think about it, probably wrong as the motor isn't running all the time, but I wanted to suggest it - if the bulbs in your extractor are low voltage, they could have been running off a tap on the old motor. There isn't an equivalent tag on the new motor, so there's nowhere for the grey wire to go, so the lights may not work. That problem could be solved in due course with a separate (isolating) transformer for the lights if needed.

 

[Sly1980]

That's good to know!
God luck. Do let us know the outcome!

PS This is just a theory, and as I think about it, probably wrong as the motor isn't running all the time, but I wanted to suggest it - if the bulbs in your extractor are low voltage, they could have been running off a tap on the old motor. There isn't an equivalent tag on the new motor, so there's nowhere for the grey wire to go, so the lights may not work. That problem could be solved in due course with a separate (isolating) transformer for the lights if needed.

Here is the update:
Took longer to degrease the hood than re-assemble it but it's back together now. Everything is working, spindle was a bit short but everything is tight and hopefully the blade assembly (if that's the right name) stays on. @Avo Mk8: the lights work, they run separately from their own transformer and the switch doesn't seem to need the motor to work.
Notes:
Motor is a 100W compared to the old 170W, this is quite a big difference but it seems to run quite fast, at least on the highest setting.
I saw the label of the motor, date says 12.03.03, not sure if it's 2013 or 2003.
Motor part number is: K42RP2213, a quick Google search shows that it is available in the UK and is used on multiple brands.
When I de-soldered the black wire from the motor, I saw the failure in the coil, image attached.
That's it! Thanks for the support and responses everyone, I really appreciate it. Hopefully this post can help somebody as well.