380v Machine in the UK

Eren1999 · Feb 28, 2020

Hi there, I have purchased a machine from Europe. It is 380v. Our usual electrician is unsure how to install and whether we need a transformer. Can anyone help?

If we do need a transformer can someone please point me in the right direction as, so far, layman's googling has failed me.

Thank you in advance.

Pete999 · Feb 28, 2020

Eren1999 said:
Hi there, I have purchased a machine from Europe. It is 380v. Our usual electrician is unsure how to install and whether we need a transformer. Can anyone help?

If we do need a transformer can someone please point me in the right direction as, so far, layman's googling has failed me.

Thank you in advance.

What are the Voltage ranges stated on the data plate on the Motor?

Eren1999 · Feb 28, 2020

Pete999 said:
What are the Voltage ranges stated on the data plate on the Motor?

Thanks for your reply and good question. I'll take a look at the plate tomorrow and post the information.

James · Feb 28, 2020

Check machine documents, many older machines have different tapping on transformers ready to change for different voltages.

Eren1999 · Feb 28, 2020

James said:
Check machine documents, many older machines have different tapping on transformers ready to change for different voltages.

No documents with this machine it's quite old

James · Feb 28, 2020

Any pictures of the control panel inside?

Eren1999 · Feb 29, 2020

Pete999 said:
What are the Voltage ranges stated on the data plate on the Motor?

These are pictures of the plate

Eren1999 · Feb 29, 2020

James said:
Any pictures of the control panel inside?

Hi James I'm a novice at this do you want me to unscrew the control panel and take a picture of the inside? What are we looking for in there?

Midwest · Feb 29, 2020

Eren1999 said:
Hi James I'm a novice at this do you want me to unscrew the control panel and take a picture of the inside? What are we looking for in there?

Think James would say a yes to that, as long as its not currently connected to a live supply.

Eren1999 · Feb 29, 2020

Midwest said:
Think James would say a yes to that, as long as its not currently connected to a live supply.

Okay thanks Midwest I'll do it on Monday

Out of interest what are we looking for when we do that? Is it to do with star wiring or something?

Midwest · Feb 29, 2020

Eren1999 said:
Okay thanks Midwest I'll do it on Monday

Out of interest what are we looking for when we do that? Is it to do with star wiring or something?

Not into electric motors, others here more intelligent than me. Pic of the connections of the wiring panel for this thing. What is it exactly?

Eren1999 · Feb 29, 2020

Midwest said:
Not into electric motors, others here more intelligent than me. Pic of the connections of the wiring panel for this thing. What is it exactly?

It's a colloid mill

Eren1999 · Mar 2, 2020

James said:
Any pictures of the control panel inside?

Hi James

Pictures of inside control panel as requested.

Intoelectrics · Mar 2, 2020

Eren1999 said:
Okay thanks Midwest I'll do it on Monday

Out of interest what are we looking for when we do that? Is it to do with star wiring or something?

The plate is showing a delta (the triangle symbol) configuration not star, it may have been previously used in conjunction with a speed control unit.

James · Mar 2, 2020

https://docs.rs-online.com/c846/0900766b802c3089.pdf

try one of these.

CMA10K/FM0 | Carroll & Meynell 10kVA Enclosed Autotransformer, 380 V, 400 V, 415 V Primary, 380 V, 400 V, 415 V Secondary | RS

uk.rs-online.com

Lucien Nunes · Mar 3, 2020

380V motors have often been used directly on 400V UK mains, although can run slightly hot at the high end of the tolerance band due to increased iron loss, and approaching magnetic saturation. We have a few that have been in use for decades on our workshop supply which sits around the 410V mark. However, the correct method is indeed to use a step-down autotransformer and the one James links would give you the option for true 400V input or traditional 415V which is still what a lot of substations provide, although 'rebranded' as 400V for harmonisation purposes. That transformer is a slightly undersize though, as the motor input is 12.4kVA (18.8A at 380V) for a 12.5 PS (metric horsepower) output.

James · Mar 3, 2020

Lucien Nunes said:
380V motors have often been used directly on 400V UK mains, although can run slightly hot at the high end of the tolerance band due to increased iron loss, and approaching magnetic saturation. We have a few that have been in use for decades on our workshop supply which sits around the 410V mark. However, the correct method is indeed to use a step-down autotransformer and the one James links would give you the option for true 400V input or traditional 415V which is still what a lot of substations provide, although 'rebranded' as 400V for harmonisation purposes. That transformer is a slightly undersize though, as the motor input is 12.4kVA (18.8A at 380V) for a 12.5 PS (metric horsepower) output.

I agree with everything above.
P.s. in the spec sheet (1st link ) it gives the part number for the 30kva version too.

My thoughts on this were that, often especially with older machines the motors were over specified and almost never use the full load they are rated too.

Depending on the amount of load on the machine and the duty cycle you may find the 10kva ok but if you want to be certain then go for 30kva version.

Eren1999 · Mar 3, 2020

Lucien Nunes said:
380V motors have often been used directly on 400V UK mains, although can run slightly hot at the high end of the tolerance band due to increased iron loss, and approaching magnetic saturation. We have a few that have been in use for decades on our workshop supply which sits around the 410V mark. However, the correct method is indeed to use a step-down autotransformer and the one James links would give you the option for true 400V input or traditional 415V which is still what a lot of substations provide, although 'rebranded' as 400V for harmonisation purposes. That transformer is a slightly undersize though, as the motor input is 12.4kVA (18.8A at 380V) for a 12.5 PS (metric horsepower) output.

Thank you all for your replies.

I managed to get in touch with the manufacturer and they have advised that it is fine to run on 400v without a transformer. We've hooked it up and all works fine, no sign of overheating.

Our electrician measured our voltage at 415v though, but given how expensive it will be to buy a transformer I think it'll be cheaper to replace the motor if and when it dies on us