5 yearly Periodic on a commercial property letting units.

[michaelw6]

hay guys been a while hope all is coping in the ressesion.
well i would like to know how i stand here...
Been offered a job doing an inspection on a rather large property approx 118 units.
now as i normally only test domestic installations what would change on an commercial property and would i be covered if anything went wrong afterwards.
i also would like to know how i would even go abouts quoting this kinda size of job.
any one with any ideas would be gratefull also i understand that this instance with offices and computers ect no rcd is required???
thanks
mike

 

[malcolmsanford]

Good luck with that. First thing is Public indeminuty Insurance must be up to date.

Commercial PIR is exactly the same as Domestic, but in reality you will have certain limitations imposed on you by the client, worse being access. First thing to arrange is access to each area and take it from there. I tried to arrange accesss either weekends or at night, it is easier to work in a commercial setting without other workers there so try and arrange out of hours working.

If that is not possible then arrange for early starts or lates finishes on circuits that can not be isolated during normal working hours. Ie perhaps sockets and lights in offices. For example if the office opens at 8am try and arrange to get a 6am start to do the work in there and if it closed a 6pm then perhaps try and work after that as long as you can.

If there have been previous PIR's done and you have access to them then you can arrange the percentage of sampling that you will do. If there is a good record of PIR's then you may only have to do a sampling of 10% and indentify what circuits you have done them on so that the next PIR will do another 10% of circuits. If there are no PIR's previously having been done then you may have to ramp the samlping upto 50% and then if you find a lot of problems then you need to do 100%.

This will affect your pricing, so you will need before you quote to have a good look around. Take a few covers off switches and a few sockets down to see what the condition is like. Whatever containment is there try and take lid of trunking or open conduit boxes, get a feel as much as you can for the installation and quote accordingly.

Make your quote clear and concise. Set out the limitations, ie if there is HI bay ligting you will do just an R2 check on it. If your unable to to the Ze without disconnecting the Main Earth condutor then do the Ze with it attached and note it. If you can't get access to certain circuits no matter what then you set them as limitations. Make it clear you will not be testing either emergency lighting, fire alaram system or intruder alarm system. If you are going to test these then it's an extra on your quote. All remedial work found will not be addressed on the PIR, unless you can factor in perhaps 30% for minor remedial such as cracked face plates, missing trunking lid, switches loose etc. Obviously highlight that if any code 1's are found these will be corrected and charged as extras after informing the concerned persons.

Bottom line is if your clear in your quote as to waht your going to do and what your not then it should be straight forward. No matter how large any installation is the best way to deal with it is to split it up to many small installations.

 

[michaelw6]

thanks that helps alot but how does it stand with sockets and lighting on rcds?
as far as i know it is not needed unless in an office enviroment, and no computers???
there are no previous pir's so do i need to draw up any plans? i know straight away a remedial will be no identification on sockets and switches.

 

[IQ Electrical]

there are no previous pir's so do i need to draw up any plans? i know straight away a remedial will be no identification on sockets and switches.

Mike, you need to read through Guidance Note 3 and brush up on the red book, you can't carry out a decent sized commercial PIR or indeed any PIR without access to and a good knowledge of those 2 publications, the key word is competency.

And would you really code switches and sockets 'without identification' ?

Have a good read through this too:- http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf It's domestically biased but gives you an idea of codings.

 

[malcolmsanford]

thanks that helps alot but how does it stand with sockets and lighting on rcds?
as far as i know it is not needed unless in an office enviroment, and no computers???
there are no previous pir's so do i need to draw up any plans? i know straight away a remedial will be no identification on sockets and switches.

Great advice from IQ you do need to know the BRB and GN 3 for testing either on initial verification or PIR. Technically PIR's are quite straight forward for as in as much with you being the competant person You decide what tests are to carried out on the installation. Remember it is not expected for you to have to dismantle the entire installation to carry out a PIR, you decide what needs to be sampled.

What is difficult about PIR's is what I call the leg work. Getting access to places and circuits is the main. As you highlighted no drawings is another main concern. You have no obligation to provide drawings but you do have an obligation to provide charts for the circuits, as you will need to identify and then label each circuit, but this will be reflected in your price. I have seen me spend over 10 days doing a PIR in a factory/office complex and the majority of that was tracing circuits. PIR's in commercial installations can be the hardest work to be taken on and if your not competant in doing this then you will struggle. Could you not get another more experienced sparks to come in with you and help, 2 heads are definately better than one, and split the quote.

What makes me feel you will struggle is your not certain about lights and RCD. The regs are quite clear on this;

Lights 522.6.5 and 522.6.6
Sockets 411.3.3 522.6.5 and 522.6.6

Computers are slightly different as if they are supplied by BS 1363 sockets and plugs you have to adhere to above. If they do not come under those regs then you can work to Regs 314.1(iv) and 531.2.4

Also if you Selv (reg 411.8) or Pelv (reg 411.7) then there is no need for RCD protection for sockets.

As in anything in life you will need to do this with confidence, I can't stress enough how horrible it is to be stood in front of a TP+N board with cable going everywhere and you have got to sort it out. You have to know the basics just to start.

 

[michaelw6]

well thanks for your help guys and pointing me in the right direction, as you can probbly guess first time factory work.
All taken on board and me thinks ill have some bed time reading over the next few days to brush up on me regs.
i just had no idea where to start but you have helped and ive also called in a mate too.
Thanks for all your help again.

 

[mogga]

it may have been previously mentioned When preparing your quote remember safe acess equipment when working at height may bump costs up drasticaly ( you could limit height worked to 4 mtr) and brush up on GN3 and the BRB Good luck