A couple of rather long questions

[D Skelton]

Hi guys and girls, I'm quite new to this so sorry if its in the wrong section. I just have a couple of questions one regarding qualifications and one regarding what I guess is quite a common scenario. Also, sorry if this post is really long winded, I'm gonna find it hard to explain what I mean.

My first question is about the new C&G 2357. At present this is what I'm studying and to the best of my knowledge (even my tutors aren't too sure) this qual is the new 2330. What I don't get however is I've been reading about sparks who study the 2330 and then go on to study the 2356 in their final year. Why? To my best understanding the 2330 is not an NVQ but the 2356 is. What is the difference? Finally, is this new 2357 an NVQ and if so, should I have been working as a sparkys mate to even have been able to get on the course, as when I enrolled, I wasn't? Also, will the three years of studying my 2357 mean I wont have to study the 2356?

Sorry people, I appreciate that question is a bit FULL ON, I just read it back to myself and was like WOW!

My second question is regarding a situation I came across the other day. I recently started working alongside a domestic installer who is on the same course as me. We've done quite a few jobs together now and I'm starting to feel increasingly confident in my ability (not overconfident I promise!). Anyway, the other day a mate of mine rings me up an goes "You're a spark now! Come over 'n change my light switch will ya!". It sounded like a simple job, he just wanted his light switch in his living room changing for a dimmer so off it came and then it hit me. No Earth! 'Cr*p' I thought to myself. So off I trotted to a couple of other switches and they all had the same problem. No Earth! Nowhere to be seen! I even checked the living room lighting under the pendant and was amazed to find only one earth despite the loop in, loop out and switch cable. I promptly put everything back to how it was when I found it and told him that there's no way I can touch it and here I am.

Where would I have stood in this situation if I had gone ahead and changed the light switch for a dimmer. Is this like for like? Would I have been commiting an atrocity? And even though my work would not have added any danger to the already dangerous wiring, my gut just told me NO NO NO. Was I right?

Again, I apologise for the long winded post.

Edit: Further questions are probably likely to follow regarding work on already dodgy installations

 

[telectrix]

to address your 2nd question 1st.... regarding the lack of cpc on the lighting.... as long as you fit a class 2 dimmer you are not compromising the safety of the installation. however, you should point out that the situation requires addressing. if the original installation was wireed with no cpc then you will find that the screw holes in the back boxes are nylon insulated from the back box, common on 1970's jobs. as regards your 1st question, i cannot comment, as my quals are prior to all these recent changes and i am trying to grasp what's happening now.

 

[D Skelton]

Ok, that seems clear enough to me, but from what I saw, the cpc's had just been clipped back to where the outer sheathing had been stripped back to inside the back boxes. This just strikes me as mad!

 

[telectrix]

if they are there, they should be terminated to the back box. if the back box is plastic, eg dry lining box. then they should be sleeved and block term.

 

[D Skelton]

Yes, I thought as much but my initial thoughts were that as I was only doing a mate a favour, I wasn't gonna go round the whole house extending and terminating every last cpc. Also, if this is the quality of work on show inside a back box, who knows what other corners may have been cut by mr cowboy? I just didn't want to do any work whatsoever on something so unsafe, I feared I may have been well out of my depth.

 

[ringer]

Regarding the course you are on:
Previously (before this year) you would do one year full-time CG2330 level2, (or two years part time) then one year CG2330 level3 (which is actually only one day a week, day release) - this is the academic side (with a bit of teach-you-how practical thrown in). Then, typically, whilst doing the second year (level 3) you would simultaneously do the 2356 NVQ, which is practical work-based, on-the-job, prove what you can do type stuff. Some people put this off until after the 2330 level 3 - it was entirely up to you. So there were two qualifications - the CG2330 and the NVQ 2356.

The new course replaces 2330 levels 1 and 2 AND the NVQ. This is all rolled up into one course - the CG2357. I believe you can take as long as you want completing all the modules (within reason) but you get no qualifications until it is all complete. To do the NVQ part of the 2357, you either need to be employed, or to be self-employed in the trade, with enough all-round work to satisfy the examiners.

In your situation, if you can get some commercial work, and some industrial too, as well as your domestic work, over the next couple of years, that should see you alright with enough variety of work to show for the NVQ side.

All of the above is my understanding of the situation, and I am not an expert in this matter. Your college should be able to advise you better, though colleges usually only like to take youngsters through who have an apprenticeship. With fewer apprecticeships being available, they are going to have to get used to taking people through like you and me, who are self-employed and basically having to get on with it and learning from others and teaching themselves. Just make sure you do not take on more (technically) than you can handle.

 

[D Skelton]

You've pretty much summed it up, thank you. I was just a bit confused because I think even my tutors are still teaching from their 2330 textbooks as the 2357 is still so new. The guy I'm working with, Mark, is a really good, proffesional guy who's been on the tools for years, and I'm lucky enough that I'm in a position whereby we work more as a team than teacher and apprentice. I only say this because from what I hear from others who have done electrical apprenticeships is that they just spend their time either making the brews or up in lofts running cables. Makes me feel kinda priveliged I have definitly taken on board what you say regarding getting commercial and industrial experience but for now, at least until I'm ready, I'll probably just stick to the basics.

On another note, I got my big red book through a couple of weeks ago and have spent at least an hour per night swatting up on what seems like an infinite amount of knowledge! 'Tis definitly a good thing though 'coz whenever I feel myself getting a little cocky or thinking that I know it all, I give that a read just to reaffirm how little I really do know

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well son have to admire you for having the stamina to stay awake after an hour of reading the Regs, it's not exactly a page turner but good luck with that and good on you for doing it.

You are very fortunate that you work with someone you do get along with and he has the confidence in you to let you loose so to speak. But don't knock the making a brew and doing the crappy end of jobs, it is a solid way to learn your trade.

Welcome to the trade and the forum and good luck with your new trade.