A different business model for PAT testing?

[Pete999]

Everyone calls it PAT testing.

The only person I ever heard call it anything else was an up his own rear letting agent who took great delight in correcting my terminology. To be fair though he was a pompous git and I don't think he could help himself.

If you don't call it PAT testing your customers won't know what on earth you are talking about. Then your customer don't know their business.

What ever floats yer boat Mate

 

[Midwest]

Everyone calls it PAT testing.

The only person I ever heard call it anything else was an up his own rear letting agent who took great delight in correcting my terminology. To be fair though he was a pompous git and I don't think he could help himself.

If you don't call it PAT testing your customers won't know what on earth you are talking about.

You just need to educate your customers. Otherwise we can call bonding earthing, or earthing bonding. Then there’s r1 or R2, or amps or a or A or Kw or kW.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

If you are thinking of this as a business, you could steal a mark on your competitors by using the right terminology. Not all electrical appliances are portable.

Have you read the H&S guidance on this subject?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Note: While studying for my 2377-22, I read Scaddon (4th. edition) on this topic, who in his Preface states the following [p.vii]:

"All electrical equipments connected to the fixed wiring of an installation will need attention, not just portable appliances. I have, however, left the title of this book as PAT: Portable Appliance Testing as such words are now indelibly imprinted on our minds, even though it should read 'Inspection and Testing of In-Service Electrical Equipment'. PAT means an appliance tester that is portable, not a tester just for portable appliances!!".

 

[DPG]

I think you're right to refer to it as PAT testing, but I would educate each customer on the actual correct term and also the background of why we test and/or inspect

 

[Midwest]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Note: While studying for my 2377-22, I read Scaddon (4th. edition) on this topic, who in his Preface states the following [p.vii]:

"All electrical equipments connected to the fixed wiring of an installation will need attention, not just portable appliances. I have, however, left the title of this book as PAT: Portable Appliance Testing as such words are now indelibly imprinted on our minds, even though it should read 'Inspection and Testing of In-Service Electrical Equipment'. PAT means an appliance tester that is portable, not a tester just for portable appliances!!".

Just read H&S guidance, before you tell your customers they need PAT ISITEE testing.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

Thanks for the comments.

1. If you won't test "fixed" items, you may find yourself out on a limb. For example, let's say you are testing a B&B. In bedroom 1 there is a wall-mounted heater, plugged into a socket. Easy job, plug it in, pass or fail. However, in bedroom 2 is an identical heater, but wired into a FCU. Do you refuse to test that one? In my view, you ought to have both the equipment and the knowledge to test that one too, else you are not providing the service that the customer requires. Nobody wants a list of stuff that is marked "Could not test". That is not really of much use to the often inexperienced customer...after all, he is hoping you will be his "one-stop" shop for all his "appliances". You won't get repeat business from him, or the introducer, because you didn't test stuff.

FAT may be a deal-breaker for me as far as this business idea goes. I appreciate that the electrician's domain is FIT, not FAT, so I am leaving a gap, but FAT is not taught on the practical element of 2377-22, despite it being clear from the Code of Practice that built-in/fixed appliances fall within the remit of Portable Appliance Testing.

In short, FAT is part of PAT, yet FAT is missed out on the main course for 'qualification'.

I'll have to look into it further and consider the feasibility of doing it. Aren't there any courses?

 

[Devonchris]

I read your business model as, your going to charge then £75 for day 1 to prepare an estimate?.

Can't see that working.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

Just read H&S guidance, before you tell your customers they need PAT ISITEE testing.

I'm not a complete numpty, maybe just a bit of one. I'm not going to be going round telling people they have to have it done as a blanket procedure full stop. I do have some understanding and appreciate that clients will need advice/guidance to suit their circumstances and usage. Hopefully I conveyed this in my original post.

 

[ferg]

You just need to educate your customers. Otherwise we can call bonding earthing, or earthing bonding. Then there’s r1 or R2, or amps or a or A or Kw or kW.

Not really a good comparison as those are real technical terms that mean different things and confusing them really does make a difference.

PAT testing is more Hoover or Vacuum cleaner.

However someone calling sockets wall plugs pretty much causes me to have a stroke so I can see your point.

 

[pirate]

FAT is part of PAT...more a subset than an element...all part of ISITEE. All I was saying is that you need to be able to do simple testing of appliances that are not actually plugged in. You don't need a course on it, you need simple equipment that costs a few pounds. The principles are the same, just a wee bit of tweaking to do the tests, and an understanding of safe isolation.
Anyway, the tests are a tiny bit, the FVI much more. Going that extra step means you have tested all you can.
If you know how to test portable appliances, then you can do the odd fixed one...or stationary one...just do them all and give the customer his paperwork.
It's all about doing the job...

 

[plugsafelincs]

Is there a room in professional PAT testing for a business model other than 'per unit'?

I ask because I've been giving this some thought. I've just finished the 2377-22 course. Not with the intention of actually doing any PAT testing professionally, rather mainly for the purpose of my own 'in-house' testing for a handcraft luminaires business I intend to launch soon. Originally I was dead against the idea of offering testing to others, mainly because I think of it as rather dull and I also couldn't find any serious competition locally. You may find this counter-intuitive, but I sometimes take lack of competition to be an ominous sign for a new business idea, as to my way of thinking it may indicate a lack of demand for the product or service. If lots of people are doing the same thing, I often take that as a good sign, the only challenge being then to find a differentiator.

Anyway, I live in a tourist area and my tutor on the 2377-22 course has suggested I look into hotels, B&Bs and what not, and I've had a re-think about it. It could be done as a spin-off from my lamp business, using my machine tester, and would be a way of acquiring a bit of electrical experience on my path to (I hope) qualifying as an electrician; and, it affords me some experience of interacting with clients, maybe with a view to building up a client list of my own. Plus, you never know, I may make a bit of money out of it, if I can find a niche.

My understanding of the conventional business model for PAT testing is that you price per item tested and you have a minimum fee that you charge irrespective. Thus, typically 'Anywhereshire PAT Testers' might charge £1.50 per item tested with a minimum fee of, let's say, £50.00.

I've also noticed that one or two testing firms have a 'site fee', similar to the minimum fee, which applies at the lower end of the fee scale, and covers the provider's costs for site attendance in addition to item fees.

The per test fee tends to be scaled progressively according to number of items tested, with a 'POA' for testing over a certain limit depending on the provider's capacity - typically 'POA' might kick in at 10,000 items.

I realise that, in reality, many providers - especially the larger ones - have driven down pricing considerably, in some cases significantly below £1.00 per unit. I can only assume this is a risk sharing strategy on the part of client and provider (a sort of cost-driven Faustian bargain), in which the provider relies on value-added and spin-offs to achieve greater margins while the client is narrowly concerned with the trade-off of risk and is, in effect, paying to outsource compliance regardless of whether the provider is good, bad or indifferent. They simply don't care if the equipment is actually inspected properly or machine-tested or even looked at all.

Whatever the morals of all of this, it is commercially understandable, and the purpose of this thread is NOT to criticise it or get into a debate over the rights or wrongs of it. I merely seek to understand it because this pricing model, as I have outlined, seems to be ubiquitous to the industry. I have seen variations on the theme, but all providers seem to stick to this core model, albeit that some are more ethical than others. I have hunted high and low and cannot find anybody who departs from it - which is interesting in and of itself.

I am now going to outline a slightly different approach and invite constructive feedback:

(i). My interest would be in providing thorough, proper, ethical, competent in-service testing. I would take the emphasis off simple machine testing and instead emphasise advice/guidance about sound and pragmatic inspection and re-testing regimes for different types of devices, with the aim of both safety and long-term cost reduction.

(ii). I would charge a day rate or fixed overall job rate, rather than a per item rate. So instead of £1.00 per item or whatever, my price would be per job or visit - let's say for argument's sake, £75.00 per visit or £75.00 for the whole job.

(iii). I would visit clients with business premises over two days - the first day would be scoping, preparation and paperwork, and based on this I would provide the client with a quotation. If the quote is agreed, the second day would be the actual inspection and testing, and I would then e-mail the client the final report and invoice. For landlords, I would try to combine these steps into one single day so as to minimise disruption to tenants.

(iv). I would market my service to small, owner-managed businesses such as shops, B&Bs/guest houses, small hotels, professional firms, small officers, perhaps the smaller independent care homes, and letting agents/managing agents, HMO landlords, etc.

(v). I would set clear parameters to my service, based on my competence and capacity. I would make clear that I am not an electrician and cannot undertake general electrical work. I would seek to assist clients only with ordinary consumables that can be tested adequately using a basic device such as a Martindale HPAT600 or similar. I would not undertake Fixed Appliance Testing or testing of commercial/industrial scale equipment, especially those with switching parts. There are other exclusions, which I won't exhaust here.

(vi). I would stick to my local area - this helps me to control overheads and allows me to provide proper support to clients and makes testing/re-testing cycles more viable.

(vii). I would add value by offering free simple repairs (within clearly-defined parameters), free replacement electrical accessories such as bulbs and fuses (up to a given maximum) and discounted accessories over the maximum. I would also provide a government-licensed waste disposal service at no cost to the client in regard to items that 'Fail' and cannot be viably repaired.

Any thoughts, comments or advice? I ought to just make clear that I'm familiar with the basics of starting a business (insurance, etc.) and I've done a lot of my own research, but I have never run or offered electrical services to the pu

Hi. I am starting out, like you, and am also looking for a differentiator. there are several companies operating round here that quote 75p an item (although they are VAT registered so this is 90p an item in reality) and then they charge a fixed rate for the first x items etc. i got a quote for my other workplace and it averaged at 1.07 per item. the point is though they quote 75p and thats what the customer hears. other testers are quoting 1.75 or even 1.90 and seem to get business but i dont know how. its hard to explain about giving a good service with free repairs and replacement plugs etc etc when they simply look at price. i have been asked to quote for a big job (4000) items know i need to compete with these cheap companies. only thing in my favour is the-contracts manager is an ex electrical maintenance manager and hopefully understands the benefit of a good PAT tester vs a sticker monkey !

 

[Midwest]

I'm not a complete numpty, maybe just a bit of one.

Wasn't suggesting you were. But there's some think that PAT testing is statutory or the like.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Can anyone here say with certainty that it is possible to make a living from doing correct and thorough ISITEE, in competition with the sticker monkeys? I.e. not doing it as a loss leader but as a self-contained business?

Back in the days when we called it PAT, I was involved with setting up central ISITEE services for local authorities. Service users (business units of the LA) were being charged upwards of £2+VAT per item, but the service they got was superb. The key benefits many of them perceived were minimal disruption and maximum confidence in the work because they knew that the testing teams were knowledgeable, efficient, sensible, and trained and vetted by the LA's own service with CRB checks etc. This was important on large, busy and possibly sensitive sites like secondary schools.

IIRC £2 - 2.30 was what it took to do the job to the very highest standards 25 years ago (in London) including minor repairs, with no corners cut. The general inventory of equipiment has changed in that time, there is less weird old stuff but more slightly dodgy imported electronics, so I am not sure that the workload has decreased much. £2.50 and upwards might be nearer the mark now. I don't know whether that's acceptable.

 

[HandsOffEngineer]

FAT is part of PAT...more a subset than an element...all part of ISITEE. All I was saying is that you need to be able to do simple testing of appliances that are not actually plugged in. You don't need a course on it, you need simple equipment that costs a few pounds. The principles are the same, just a wee bit of tweaking to do the tests, and an understanding of safe isolation.
Anyway, the tests are a tiny bit, the FVI much more. Going that extra step means you have tested all you can.
If you know how to test portable appliances, then you can do the odd fixed one...or stationary one...just do them all and give the customer his paperwork.
It's all about doing the job...

Thanks - I'm going to look at this. Thanks for the advice.
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Hi. I am starting out, like you, and am also looking for a differentiator. there are several companies operating round here that quote 75p an item (although they are VAT registered so this is 90p an item in reality) and then they charge a fixed rate for the first x items etc. i got a quote for my other workplace and it averaged at 1.07 per item. the point is though they quote 75p and thats what the customer hears. other testers are quoting 1.75 or even 1.90 and seem to get business but i dont know how. its hard to explain about giving a good service with free repairs and replacement plugs etc etc when they simply look at price. i have been asked to quote for a big job (4000) items know i need to compete with these cheap companies. only thing in my favour is the-contracts manager is an ex electrical maintenance manager and hopefully understands the benefit of a good PAT tester vs a sticker monkey !

All the best with it.
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Wasn't suggesting you were. But there's some think that PAT testing is statutory or the like.

Apologies, yes you're right that it's important to give the customer accurate information.
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Can anyone here say with certainty that it is possible to make a living from doing correct and thorough ISITEE, in competition with the sticker monkeys? I.e. not doing it as a loss leader but as a self-contained business?

The reason I started this thread was to look at that very issue. Personally I think there is a potential market for ISITEE [which is what I am now calling it - I'm converted] done in a thorough and professional way, but it's probably going to be local with customers/clients who know you and want rounded advice/support.

This thread has really helped me and I've decided that, subject to finding a proper test machine, I'm going to give this a go. My business plan is that I will stick to my locality and target small owner-managed businesses, HMOs, professional firms and smaller SMEs. I won't be charging by the unit, I will charge a fixed daily fee instead, to reflect my time/labour.

As a result of advice I have received in this thread, I'm now going to call my work by its proper name: In Service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment (ISITEE).

I'm not interested in the bigger clients. I don't have the capability or resources, but I think the big clients mostly are just engaged in 'risk-sharing'. They know the inspection and testing is not being done properly, it's a charade, but they pay the money to nominally comply [box-ticking exercise] and the "PAT testing" provider takes on some of the legal/regulatory risk as a 'certifier' with a paper trail in exchange for the money and the opportunity to provide various add-on services and build relationships.

Source URL: A different business model for PAT testing? - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/a-different-business-model-for-pat-testing.181122/#post-1595239
Back in the days when we called it PAT, I was involved with setting up central ISITEE services for local authorities. Service users (business units of the LA) were being charged upwards of £2+VAT per item, but the service they got was superb. The key benefits many of them perceived were minimal disruption and maximum confidence in the work because they knew that the testing teams were knowledgeable, efficient, sensible, and trained and vetted by the LA's own service with CRB checks etc. This was important on large, busy and possibly sensitive sites like secondary schools.

IIRC £2 - 2.30 was what it took to do the job to the very highest standards 25 years ago (in London) including minor repairs, with no corners cut. The general inventory of equipiment has changed in that time, there is less weird old stuff but more slightly dodgy imported electronics, so I am not sure that the workload has decreased much. £2.50 and upwards might be nearer the mark now. I don't know whether that's acceptable.

All good, but personally I am not interested in charging by the unit, nor do I want the hassle of bigger companies or bureaucratic clients like local authorities. I suspect the real money is to be made at the 'smaller' end of the market with business owners and HMOs that want a proper service that includes advice/guidance on managing electrical appliances. I have a broad skills base and lots of general experience - including in law, property management, manufacturing, and other areas, as well as electrical, so I think I can add something.

 

[Risteard]

In my opinion, by referring to it as "In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment" is not only a mouthful, but also unlikely to get you any work. Everyone refers to it as PAT Testing or Portable Appliance Testing, and the reality is that is what they are going to seek and ask for.