A new energy source-maybe--maybe-not

[justcurioustwo]

I am bringing this drawing back into the discussion just to ask one last question.
In the drawing there are twelve (12) buckets on the right side. Just for discussion each bucket has a lifting force of 100-foot pounds. 12 buckets times 100 = 1200-foot pounds of lifting force.
1200-foot pounds of lifting force can produce more energy at any one moment in time than 100-foot pounds;
Once all the buckets are full and this machine is running, the process continues to produce 1200-foot pounds of force if you continue to fill one (1) bucket at the bottom in sequence with the rest.
YES or NO?

 

[Deleted account]

I would say yes.

and an extra word

 

[littlespark]

no.

The buckets are sitting in water. Any water “in” a bucket will be held up by the water below it.

Nothing will happen

 

[Baddegg]

What gives it motion?....12 buckets full of water in water will weigh nothing effectively.......or have I missed something?

 

[justcurioustwo]

What gives it motion?....12 buckets full of water in water will weigh nothing effectively.......or have I missed something?

They are not full of water, they are full of air

 

[Baddegg]

sorry mate lost me.....

 

[Silly Sausage]

What gives it motion?....12 buckets full of water in water will weigh nothing effectively.......or have I missed something?

I think the system is that the inverted buckets are filled with air at the base of the conveyor, hence getting the thing in motion.
He can rest assured though, that it will require more energy to pump air down to the bottom than he'll extract from the system.
Just another perp-motion nonsense.

 

[Dan]

These threads always make me think of doc from back to the future. I imagine his shed/lab from the first one.

 

[Baddegg]

Got more chance with time travel than perpetual motion me thinks

 

[StephenRowley]

Got more chance with time travel than perpetual motion me thinks

It can't work otherwise the universe would Hve destroyed it self a long time ago

 

[Dan]

I love people trying. And hope one day somebody clocks it. But brainier people than us discovered the laws of physics that prevent it. And only brainier people than us will find a way to beat the laws.

(Worth noting some laws have been disproved now - but not theory or relativity just yet)

 

[MJPD29]

I've read this 3 times and I still don't understand it how is this going to work?

 

[DPG]

I've read this 3 times and I still don't understand it how is this going to work?

That because it won't

 

[ElectroChem]

I'll try to tackle this with some math, just to amuse myself.

I had originally assumed that ft.lb was a unit of power, but a quick google shows that it is actually an energy, with ft.lb/s being the power unit. The buoyant force of each bucket will marginally decrease as it rises, as a function of the surrounding water density, but this can be effectively disregarded as trivial.

Be that as it may, let us assume that each bucket can provide a total of 100ft.lb of energy as it rises from the bottom of the cycle. Over each 'interval' of machine time, this being the time between each bucket passing a set point, you can only extract 100ft.lb of energy, this being the difference in potential buoyant force given by raising N buckets 1/N of the way from bottom to top. Let us assume that one bucket passes the top each second, your total extractable power will thus be 100ft.lb/s, and not one erg more. Thus is exposed your first mathematical error, that you can extract the full stored energy of the system over and over again.

You will find, should you calculate the power and energy needed to compress and force enough air to fill a bucket from sea level to the bottom of the machine, that it will be greater than 100ft.lb and will thus require more than 100ft.lb/s to fill a bucket as it passes the bottom. And the bucket MUST be fully filled at the lowest point, any delay in filling only reduces the total energy that can be provided by it then rising to the top, in direct ratio to the delay in filling with air.

Needless to say, all this assumes that your machine has no bearing losses, drag losses through the water, power extraction losses, compressor losses, heat loss, leaks, etc, etc, etc...

So, no, you cannot fill buckets under water with air and let them pull your machine along, the idea is even less feasible than pumping water up to buckets which then fall down and pull a chain to provide power. The latter at least can be used to store energy, though a hydro station using one bucket of water per second would be rather on the small side (excepting certain very large definitions of 'one bucket').

 

[justcurioustwo]

..., The buoyant force of each bucket will marginally decrease as it rises

You are 180 degrees wong. As the balloons of air rise they will expand; increasing the lifting force.

Please stay on this topic; I need you -
[automerge]1567206463[/automerge]

you can only extract 100ft.lb of energy, this being the difference in potential buoyant force given by raising N buckets 1/N of the way from bottom to top. Let us assume that one bucket passes the top each second

Bubbles in water+/-salt water
The air bubble will expand as the bubble rises
This is where the term "poof"{ came from -