A new energy source-maybe--maybe-not

[justcurioustwo]

I am bringing this drawing back into the discussion just to ask one last question.
In the drawing there are twelve (12) buckets on the right side. Just for discussion each bucket has a lifting force of 100-foot pounds. 12 buckets times 100 = 1200-foot pounds of lifting force.
1200-foot pounds of lifting force can produce more energy at any one moment in time than 100-foot pounds;
Once all the buckets are full and this machine is running, the process continues to produce 1200-foot pounds of force if you continue to fill one (1) bucket at the bottom in sequence with the rest.
YES or NO?

 

[DPG]

The 'continuous lifting force' is not free energy. I still don't see where the driving force is available without external influence. It still seems like the many examples of over-unity machines to me.

 

[Dan]

As above. It defies Newton's law.

 

[static zap]

Does at least make me think about any deep sea , bubbling gas (of any type) sources ,and a reward for concentrating and gathering them ! ..Hopefully not a consequence of fracking .. or failed Carbon storage !
( Storing high pressure CO2 , can later be processed into a usable fuel if energy is available to convert it )

 

[ElectroChem]

If it takes less power to keep the system running than the output created; then this is a positive idea. If not; this is a dead horse with nowhere to go.

I'm going to go with option B here.

The sheer number of PM/FE ideas that boil down to "Extract energy from working fluid as it moves from a HP to LP reservoir, use {some value less than 100%} of that energy to pump the fluid back to the HP side" suggests some intuitive disconnect with how people think of moving energy states. Some just can never wrap their head around losses and equivalences.

ed: spelling

 

[Megawatt]

I'm going to go with option B here.

The sheer number of PM/FE ideas that boil down to "Extract energy from working fluid as it moves from a HP to LP reservoir, use {some value less than 100%} of that energy to pump the fluid back to the HP side" suggests some intuitive disconnect with how people think of moving energy states. Some just can never wrap their head around losses and equivalences.

ed: spelling

Where’s @Lucien at when you need him

 

[justcurioustwo]

HOW IT WORKS
I would build the thing to prove it works but to do that it would have to be built full scale, in the ocean as advertised. You can’t make a scaled model, it wouldn’t work.
A three-dimensional computer model would work if it was programed to operate with the same parameters as the real thing including depth and sea pressure; ATM’s and it would have to operate in real time..
For every ATM in depth (33') an air bubble is compressed to half its size.
This also works in the reverse. An air bubble with a radius of 10 FT at 15 ATM's will expand to twice its size (r=20) at 14 ATM's.
Principles to run the machine
There are a few basic principles that you cannot deny.
[1] an enclosed container (X) of air submerged in water has a lifting force (Y) equal to the volume of the water displaced minus the weight of the container; [yes] [no]
[2] connection multiple containers one on top of the other creates a combined lifting force of (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)
Which is a greater lifting force than (Y); [yes] [no]
[3] the energy needed to fill one container is equal to the energy needed to sustain the combined lifting force of the 10 (ten) containers referenced above minus the energy needed to keep it running.
; [yes] [no]

 

[static zap]

The issue has to be ,the energy needed to compress air so it wishes to come out of the end of the pipe -Deep under sea.

 

[Dan]

Is the energy being used to fill the containers coming from the energy gained from the containers rising?

If so, those two are going to be equal and fall under Newton's third law.

If one of them requires more energy the other will.

 

[static zap]

These threads always make me think of doc from back to the future. I imagine his shed/lab from the first one.

I blame some of my "Tinkering" on Chutty bang bangs Caractacus Pots untidy lab .. (and my bad hoarding habits)
A piece of lead (pb) will always come in usefull !
..Most interesting bits getting banned-unhealthy..

 

[justcurioustwo]

Is the energy being used to fill the containers coming from the energy gained from the containers rising?

If so, those two are going to be equal and fall under Newton's third law.
If one of them requires more energy the other will.

For every ATM in depth (33') an air bubble is compressed to half its size. This also works in the reverse. An air bubble with a radius of 10 FT at 15 ATM's will expand to twice its size (r=20) at 14 ATM's. Principles to run the machine

There are a few basic principles that you cannot deny.
[1] an enclosed container (X) of air submerged in water has a lifting force (Y) equal to the volume of the water displaced minus the weight of the container;
[yes] [no]
[2] connection multiple containers one on top of the other creates a combined lifting force of (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y)+ (Y) Which is a greater lifting force than (Y);
[yes] [no]
[3] the energy needed to fill one container is equal to the energy needed to sustain the combined lifting force of the 10 (ten) containers referenced above minus the energy needed to keep it running. ;
[yes] [no]

 

[littlespark]

As one fictional Scotsman once said
“Ya cannae change the laws o’ physics!”

 

[static zap]

As one fictional Scotsman once said
“Ya cannae change the laws o’ physics!”

But quantum mechanics has made "observing" things pretty confusing !
( Sorry Sci-fi fans: there is no transparent aluminum -metal )

 

[justcurioustwo]

Someone please respond to post #51
Thanks in advance

 

[static zap]

Multiple containers will produce more lifting force , but also more drag ,that will also worsten the faster things operate.
(I disagree with scale mode -as using a chilled gas will get plenty of expansion ,as the free energy this system harvests is actually taking heat from the sea ,to let gas expand.
(expanding gas needs heat from somewhere to accomplish it's expansion ) -- So buckets / baloons need to be thermally conductive !

 

[justcurioustwo]

Multiple containers will produce more lifting force , but also more drag ,that will also worsten the faster things operate.
(I disagree with scale mode -as using a chilled gas will get plenty of expansion ,as the free energy this system harvests is actually taking heat from the sea ,to let gas expand.
(expanding gas needs heat from somewhere to accomplish it's expansion ) -- So buckets / baloons need to be thermally conductive !

The balloons expand as they rise as well