Adapt this CU...........

[Octopus]

OK - this is a dual board, about 3 years old ......... 1 RCD per bank.

They are experiencing random tripping, and my trusty earth leakage clamp shows that both banks are running at around 21 mA leakage - so the smallest change plunges half the house into darkness etc.

Anyone know if I could easily source the parts to add 2 more RCD's (yes I realise some circuit consolidation would be required ....

Thanks

And no I didn't install this!

 

[SparkyChick]

Hager do have a range of accessories that you could potentially use.

Consumer Unit Accessories Insulated Consumer Units - http://www.hager.co.uk/product-catalogue/energy-distribution/consumer-units/insulated-consumer-units/consumer-unit-accessories/38466.htm

Couple of split load cable kits maybe, split the bus bars and a couple of new RCDs.

 

[SJD]

Can you perhaps put the "leakiest" circuit from each RCD onto a couple of RCBOs?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Can you perhaps put the "leakiest" circuit from each RCD onto a couple of RCBOs?

Still needs another couple of neutral bars for that though.

 

[SparkyChick]

Still needs another couple of neutral bars for that though.

They are available as spares/accessories... as soon as I posted I thought about them and yes, they are available as spares so he should be able to add a bar to each unit without too much hassle.

 

[SJD]

Still needs another couple of neutral bars for that though.

For just one RCBO, you could maybe use direct cables of a suitable size depending on the RCBO value?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I've never used Hagar, but I think they're supposed to be pretty versatile. Could you not use two of these https://www.sparksdirect.co.uk/hager-terminal-bar-10-way#.WcApQ0DTVpU in the spare ways on the top left of each board for 2 more neutral bars?

 

[Octopus]

The client did ask what the best solution was - I said replace ALL the MCB's with RCBO's but with 26 circuits this wouldn't be cheap!

 

[Phil Thompson]

I was pricing Hager RCBO's earlier. Over a monkey plus vat for 26 of the yokes. Some price.

 

[Toneyz]

The client did ask what the best solution was - I said replace ALL the MCB's with RCBO's but with 26 circuits this wouldn't be cheap!

I think that will be the only option as there is not any space to fit a two modular RCD to make each board split RCD.

 

[Octopus]

I think that will be the only option as there is not any space to fit a two modular RCD to make each board split RCD.

I think there may be a few circuits which could be consolidated and make some space

Back on site next Saturday .... So will take some more photos

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

The cheapest place i have found recently for hager rcbos is
discount-electrical.co.uk also known as shop4electrical.
The price can vary widely between suppliers. Hager are good with 2 year warranty too in event of failures. Dodgy batc etc...just never buy direct from hager though. They charge the list price!

 

[mickfred]

Rather test that board than my one today . Looked perfect but the earths and neutral s where cut so tight that it was a pain to get back in . looked more like a art project than a leccy board

 

[JK-Electrical]

Perhaps the purchase of a few job lots of replacement RCBOs would bring the cost down to an acceptable level?

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

 

[dmxtothemax]

QUOTE - [ both banks are running at around 21 mA leakage ]

Have you investigated why,
Seems a little on the high side.
Instead of masking the problem,
Get to the root cause of the issue ?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Even if you manage to split that lot over an extra couple of RCD's there's no assurance that nuisance tripping of a bank of circuits will not be a regular occurrence. The client will likely assume that whatever you do will be a total cure.
I'd insist on fitting RCBO's regardless of cost.

 

[LankyWill]

I had the same issue on a stackable Hager 36 way board. Lots of electronics and control system were leaking due to design.

We added another neutral bar and put rings, cooker and kitchen on rcbo's. Problem went away, I think adding an RCD would be more hassle than it's worth.

 

[Octopus]

I think adding an RCD would be more hassle than it's worth.

I'm well known for my hatred of RCD's so another neutral bar and some RCBO's has to be the way forward

Time to email Hager Technical for the parts I need!

 

[DPG]

Which individual circuits show the highest value of leakage?

 

[dmxtothemax]

How does adding another neutral bar solve the problem ?
The only thing that makes sense is that it lowers the neutral systems impedance.
In which case that indicates a failing or poor neutral system to start with.

 

[Octopus]

How does adding another neutral bar solve the problem ?
The only thing that makes sense is that it lowers the neutral systems impedance.
In which case that indicates a failing or poor neutral system to start with.

Adding a neutral bar would enable RCBO's to be added .... then the higher leaking circuits could be on them, reducing the cumulative leakage on the current RCD's.

Having 13 MCB's on RCD wasn't a great idea to start with!

 

[jackhammerJIM]

How does adding another neutral bar solve the problem ?
The only thing that makes sense is that it lowers the neutral systems impedance.
In which case that indicates a failing or poor neutral system to start with.

Too much earth leakage going through the rcds . adding another neutral bar allows the earth leakage to be split across more devices .

 

[jackhammerJIM]

[QUOTE

Having 13 MCB's on RCD wasn't a great idea to start with![/QUOTE]

Bad design . Should have been a stacked board with 3 rcds . I installed one last year , it had a hefty price tag of £250 inc mcbs

 

[Pete999]

Adding a neutral bar would enable RCBO's to be added .... then the higher leaking circuits could be on them, reducing the cumulative leakage on the current RCD's.

Having 13 MCB's on RCD wasn't a great idea to start with!

Never seen a 13Amp cb

 

[telectrix]

not 13A MCB pete, he meant 13 x MCBs on 1 RCD.

 

[Pete999]

not 13A MCB pete, he meant 13 x MCBs on 1 RCD.

Oh right thanks for pointing my error out, I'll be more careful in future, promise. I presume the lack of an A after the 13 is a clue.

 

[telectrix]

it's OK pete. i'm feeling the early stages of dementia also, just forgot where i'd put my beer down.

 

[Pete999]

it's OK pete. i'm feeling the early stages of dementia also, just forgot where i'd put my beer down.

Know what you mean Tel I can't find me wine,hang on I drunk it all.

 

[telectrix]

never mind, pete, aldi is open till 21.00 hrs. send mrs. pete out. if you're lucky, might get a pie as well.

 

[Pete999]

never mind, pete, aldi is open till 21.00 hrs. send mrs. pete out. if you're lucky, might get a pie as well.

Not possible for Mrs Pete999 to get about much these days Tel, and to be honest I really can't be bothered, as well as the drink driving issue, I'LL wait till I get back from ELEX tomorrow. Pick up 1 or 6 on the way home.

 

[telectrix]

i'd go elex if it wasn't so far. it's only the munchester that's viable for me.

 

[Pete999]

i'd go elex if it wasn't so far. it's only the munchester that's viable for me.

I know it's difficult for some guys, you would have thought they would have a date up your way. Anything you want me to look at for you tool wise?

 

[telectrix]

if i buy any more tools a divorce is imminent.

 

[Pete999]

if i buy any more tools a divorce is imminent.

 

[telectrix]

you just can't get through to a woman. it's like...

she: why have you spent £60 on them super rods?

me: because i need them.

she: how on earth did you manage to cable them new downlights in my kitchen?

me: super rods.

Tel 1 - mrs Tel 0.

 

[Toneyz]

Never seen a 13Amp cb

You can get them Pete I think Eaton and others manufacture them (well there in their catalogue ) but are not stocked by wholesalers.

 

[Toneyz]

it's OK pete. i'm feeling the early stages of dementia also, just forgot where i'd put my beer down.

You'll need a stiff drink to compensate for the shock.

 

[Pete999]

You can get them Pete I think Eaton and others manufacture them (well there in their catalogue ) but are not stocked by wholesalers.

Probably why I have never seen one.

 

[weevilward]

Maybe too late but try Direct Trade Supplies online. Hager RCBOs £16.50 +VAT each. I used some last week, they are the real McCoy. Next day delivery too.