Advice needed

[martingstacey]

Hi guys

I'm in massive need of advice cause as I feel like I'm smashing my head against a brick wall at the moment. Its a bit long winded but bare with me cause without the background I cant get to the issue.

Having spent 15years in accounts I got made redundant and 2014 I decided to retrain, got a bit of assistance from the jobcentre (I kid you not) told them I wanted to retrain to become a 'fully qualified electrician' (note the fully qualified bit) they put me in touch with my local training provider, booked me on to various courses and put a contribution towards the training.

I completed

1. EAL level 3 Periodic inspection and testing
2. EAL level 3 Installing, testing and insuring compliance of electrical installations in dwelling
3. C&G Pat testing
4. EAL level 3 Initial verification and certification
5. C&G Building regs
6. C&G 17th Edition wiring regs to 2008(2011)
7. The training companies in-house introduction to electrics

In total study alone was in the region of £6558 + some exams + books and guides.

I was doing general labouring and work as an electricians mate while training and then on completion of the courses I got took on mid 2015 with a one man band doing a tonne of house bashing. Things didn't work out and mid 2016 I started doing work for myself from small repair jobs up to rewires. I've also done a fair amount for sub-contract work on a variety of projects from houses to retail outlets to national trust properties. The guy I sub to also does work on big factories and vehicle production plants. Unfortunately to work on those job i'd need an ECS gold card.

Finally heres my problem, to obtain an ECS gold card I need to be a 'fully qualified electrician' (see my original request to Jobcentre) I spoke to the training provider I did my qualifications with and apparently I now need to do

1. C&G 2365 level 2
2. C&G 2365 level 3
3. C&G 18th edition
4. AM2.

this is gonna cost me at least the same as whats already been spent (£6558) if not even more. Does anyone know if this is correct? is there any cross over exams that can be done instead of the full 2365 2&3 as most of the content the trainer said was in 2365 sounds identical to the studies I've already done.

I much prefer the commercial side of the job as house bashing gets a bit boring day in day out but I'm stuck without the gold card.

if any one has any knowledge of possible routes I'd love to hear them


cheers in advance

martin

 

[Pete999]

Hi guys

I'm in massive need of advice cause as I feel like I'm smashing my head against a brick wall at the moment. Its a bit long winded but bare with me cause without the background I cant get to the issue.

Having spent 15years in accounts I got made redundant and 2014 I decided to retrain, got a bit of assistance from the jobcentre (I kid you not) told them I wanted to retrain to become a 'fully qualified electrician' (note the fully qualified bit) they put me in touch with my local training provider, booked me on to various courses and put a contribution towards the training.

I completed

1. EAL level 3 Periodic inspection and testing
2. EAL level 3 Installing, testing and insuring compliance of electrical installations in dwelling
3. C&G Pat testing
4. EAL level 3 Initial verification and certification
5. C&G Building regs
6. C&G 17th Edition wiring regs to 2008(2011)
7. The training companies in-house introduction to electrics

In total study alone was in the region of £6558 + some exams + books and guides.

I was doing general labouring and work as an electricians mate while training and then on completion of the courses I got took on mid 2015 with a one man band doing a tonne of house bashing. Things didn't work out and mid 2016 I started doing work for myself from small repair jobs up to rewires. I've also done a fair amount for sub-contract work on a variety of projects from houses to retail outlets to national trust properties. The guy I sub to also does work on big factories and vehicle production plants. Unfortunately to work on those job i'd need an ECS gold card.

Finally heres my problem, to obtain an ECS gold card I need to be a 'fully qualified electrician' (see my original request to Jobcentre) I spoke to the training provider I did my qualifications with and apparently I now need to do

1. C&G 2365 level 2
2. C&G 2365 level 3
3. C&G 18th edition
4. AM2.

this is gonna cost me at least the same as whats already been spent (£6558) if not even more. Does anyone know if this is correct? is there any cross over exams that can be done instead of the full 2365 2&3 as most of the content the trainer said was in 2365 sounds identical to the studies I've already done.

I much prefer the commercial side of the job as house bashing gets a bit boring day in day out but I'm stuck without the gold card.

if any one has any knowledge of possible routes I'd love to hear them


cheers in advance

martin

Martin, you might like to apply for access to the Trainee area, if you consider yourself as a trainee, lots of like minded people have access, and lots of very good mentors, I am one but don't have much of an idea as to the modern training courses.
But lots do, and I convinced you will get more help there, just apply to Admin or 1 of the Staff Members, Westward10 is one I would contact if I was in your shoes, good luck any way.

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

You can apply for the ECS card with your papers, you will not be eligible for the gold card but you may be graded as an Electrical Improver or Trainee Level 3, you will have to research this. This will not stop you from getting on site though. You dont need the 2365 you need the 2357 NVQ if you want to eventually get the gold card. Look at the XS training sponsor on here many people have used them and found them most helpful.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What you need for the gold card, is an NVQ3 and the AM2.
I believe the AM2 is part of the NVQ3 now.
The NVQ3 for mature students is the 2356-99.

Home – Brian Scaddan (UK)

At Brian Scaddan UK we offer training and NVQs in four industry sectors. Keep your employees updated with the relevant qualifications.

www.bsatraining.co.uk

 

[martingstacey]

thanks guys this is why I get so confused. attached are 2 pictures one of 2356-99 for mature students which I don't qualify for due to the requirements being old qualifications before my time and 2357 contains lots of basic electrical works covered by the 'EAL level 3 Installing, testing and insuring compliance of electrical installations in dwelling' course I did.

you need the 2357

2356-99.

 

[martingstacey]

Martin, you might like to apply for access to the Trainee area, if you consider yourself as a trainee, lots of like minded people have access, and lots of very good mentors, I am one but don't have much of an idea as to the modern training courses.
But lots do, and I convinced you will get more help there, just apply to Admin or 1 of the Staff Members, Westward10 is one I would contact if I was in your shoes, good luck any way.

Thanks Pete I'll join that group. I'm not sure if id class myself as a trainee or not? I've done quite a lot of actual work since I finished the courses I took. I've done plenty of rewires of various sizes and complexity and tested & certified them. I can do the practical on the job and have done the practical in the training centre under assessment, i know the theory and have portfolios very similar that need to be produced for the nvq but unfortunately I don't think its transferable

 

[sparkyrj]

To me the gold card is just a lazy quick way of checking someones qualified to do the job. I have been an electrician for 40 years,all relevant C+Gs including 2391 but can not get a gold card because i havn't worked for a JIB company. All i can have is an electrical labourers card. Bit of an insult really.

 

[Pete999]

To me the gold card is just a lazy quick way of checking someones qualified to do the job. I have been an electrician for 40 years,all relevant C+Gs including 2391 but can not get a gold card because i havn't worked for a JIB company. All i can have is an electrical labourers card. Bit of an insult really.

I agree with you Mate, sign of the times I'm afraid, play by the rules or be forever dammed, stupid really but until we get someone that knows what it's all about, being an Electrician that is, this kind of stupidity is what we/ you have to adhere to.
The sooner Licensing electricians comes into force country wide, rather than all these pseudo qualifications the better, mind you this Forum may suffer due to lack of people complaining.
Sat back waiting for the doubters and soothsayers to find fault in my reply, but I have a thick skin, and a retiree it doesn't effect me at all. just saying my piece.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The problem I have with licensing, is that it’s detrimental to safety.

 

[Pete999]

The problem I have with licensing, is that it’s detrimental to safety.

How please explain your reply. How can being Licenced be detrimental to safety? love to view your reasoning.

 

[Charlie_]

What do you mean by licensed?
Similar to how gas safe works?

 

[Pete999]

What do you mean by licensed?
Similar to how gas safe works?

Yes or similar, not the hit and miss method we have at present.

 

[Charlie_]

What categories do you think need to be licensed?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Just going by the evidence for countries that do have licensing such as Australia and in the past New Zealand.
My understanding, is that New Zealand did away with licensing precisely because of the detriment to safety.

It’s mostly poor and people on low income that suffer.
Where there’s licensing the price goes up.
Poor person needs some extra sockets, can’t afford an electrician, so buys extension leads and 3 way plug adapters.

Because the sale of electrical items is restricted to licensed electricians, there’s an increase in the sale of second hand and black market electrical items.

Of course, you’re still going to get unlicensed electricians doing work, and because they’re much cheaper, they get lots of work.

 

[Pete999]

What categories do you think need to be licensed?

Probably going to get crucified with "old" or whatever, or even castigated by the Admin, but it has to be said.
Qualifications such as 17TH or 18TH or 2391 classed as an Electrician, how can that be? not going to proceed as it will result in a ban for yours truly, so I'll leave it to your imagination Charlie, you're a sensible Chap you figure it out