Advice on Unsatisfactory EICR report

[naylorpd]

I've had an EICR on the house in Reading that I rent out with some unsatisfactory points and I'm looking for some advice.

Broadly, there are no big surprises because I know that the CU is old, has no RCDs and needs to be changed out. But:

1) Circuits not buried more than 50mm....the house was built in the 1980s (with old red/black T&E) and the cable depth is what it is. Is this an item that they have to report and I just need to ignore?

Actually I doubt that the cable depth is more than 50mm even in my brand new house as it's only slab n dab plasterboard and the total depth is not even 50mm...but that's a different issue. This house is brick & breeze-block.

4, 9) Ceiling rose needs replacing, unswitched socket. I don't mind paying for things I can't do, but I'm perfectly capable to do this myself - but would I then need to get another EICR to show a clean report? So is there a real benefit to get the same sparky to fix this? If it's done at the same time as the CU presumably the cost will be quite small as the call-out is covered.

2) Identification on light switch wires - what is needed? Sounds like something else I can do. But see next point - if all the switches need to come off anyway to find an earth leakage, perhaps the cost is quite small?

10) High earth leakage readings...this is the big issue. What I've been told is "However if a new consumer unit was fitted the RCD safety devices would be continually tripping as there are three circuits that contain earth leakage currents that would be high enough cause constant tripping. There are other relatively minor issues that are fairly common and relatively easy to rectify. So, before we can even consider changing the consumer unit these faults need to be found and rectified. There are three circuits that need investigating, the two main socket outlet circuits and the downstairs lighting circuit. These will not be easy to find and remedy but I would suggest that myself and another electrician would spend a day there and see what we can find, this would be at a cost of £500.00."

I suppose what I'm concerned about here is:
a) is there anything I could do myself to trace these faults?
b) does it need two people and is £500 for a day reasonable
c) it doesn't actually give me any guarantees that they'll find the faults, so it's really just taking a punt
d) they could find it in an hour and I'd still need to pay for a day. But (for example) if that was the case, the rest of the day could be used to fit the new CU and not charge for that again....

Thoughts?

Thanks
Phil

 

[naylorpd]

left something plugged in or did not bypass a neon or forgot about the USB sockets things like that. Second opinion is good.

Hmmm, I recently fitted USB sockets on upstairs and downstairs rings. I don't recall any neons though, but it's possible.

What should you do with USB sockets when doing leakage and IR tests? Disconnect them?

Thanks for advice and understanding.

 

[SparkyChick]

Hmmm, I recently fitted USB sockets on upstairs and downstairs rings. I don't recall any neons though, but it's possible.

What should you do with USB sockets when doing leakage and IR tests? Disconnect them?

Thanks for advice and understanding.

It depends on what the manufacturers recommend. Some sockets can be left in place but they will adversely affect insulation resistance test results (usually just the L-N tests).

We don't perform leakage tests in the normal course of carrying out an EICR, however if we get low IR results, it's not unusual to perform a direct leakage test by using an earth leakage clamp meter on the meter tails.

If there were things in circuit that adversely affected the IR results, one would expect to see a suitably low result in the schedule of test results (by suitably low I mean less than 1 Mega ohm), but the test results are all claiming >100 Mega ohms so either the statement about excessive leakage is bogus or the test results are incorrect, they can't both be true (IMHO at least).

The immersion heater issue, as has already been said it's possible this is a non-issue because it may actually have a cut out, it's just not accessible with the terminal cover on.

Given your location... are you in the country at the moment? I'd like to see why the hall ceiling rose needs replacing

 

[The Ghost]

I bypass the socket with wagos. It does occur to me that while you say you are competent to change a ceiling rose etc. I would tend to question that in the sense that any work you do may invalidate certified work. If you did work and made a mistake you have no defence at law and it may invalidate any insurance. I only flag that to you as sage advice I am sure you can actually do the changes you mentioned as a practical matter but not so much in a legal/regulatory manner as a landlord.

 

[naylorpd]

Given your location... are you in the country at the moment? I'd like to see why the hall ceiling rose needs replacing

I'm also interested in that - I decorated the house top to bottom last year and replaced a few ceiling roses, not sure about the hall though.

No, I'm in Azerbaijan at the moment. But I'll have a look when I'm back in the UK.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I’m a little suspicious of the high earth leakage.
IR results are >100 Mohms, which would suggest there is no earth leakage.
When conducting IR and Zs tests on installations with USB sockets, precautions should be taken. Simplest would be to disconnect them.
A recent test of a number of USB sockets conducted by Electrical Safety First showed problems with high earth leakage on USB sockets from 3 manufactures.
Investigation into UK socket-outlets incorporating USB charging points | Electrical Safety First - https://www.----------------------------/professional-resources/technical-e-news/investigation-into-uk-socket-outlets-incorporating-usb-charging-points/
I’m also sceptical that the BS 3871 MCBs are type B.
I suspect they are in fact type 2.

 

[westward10]

The old Wylex push button mcbs which fitted the Standard range of consumer units are identified as BS3871 type B so it could be those especially as they are rated at 5, 15 and 30A.

 

[naylorpd]

The old Wylex push button mcbs which fitted the Standard range of consumer units are identified as BS3871 type B so it could be those especially as they are rated at 5, 15 and 30A.

Yes, they are push button MCBs. I have a picture but it's too fuzzy. The buttons are white (lights), blue (immersion) and red (rings, kitchen etc.)

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Any chance on getting the EICR price? Dont worry if you dont feel comfortable giving it out.

 

[telectrix]

Go on, I dare you

nah, might get hit over head with a wet dishcloth.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

nah, might get hit over head with a wet dishcloth.

Sponge scourer.

 

[The Ghost]

It does niggle me that the rn/r1/r2 are not showing in the report.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

It does niggle me that the rn/r1/r2 are not showing in the report.

Id bet my 50p that zero dead testing was carried out.

 

[naylorpd]

Any chance on getting the EICR price?

I think I purged the EICR of any identifying info, so £245, no VAT.

 

[SparkyChick]

I think I purged the EICR of any identifying info, so £245, no VAT.

How long were they on site?

 

[naylorpd]

Id bet my 50p that zero dead testing was carried out.

Interestingly, I found the previous EICR,
- it has the r1, rn, r2 values on the ring mains.
- and it had 1mm cable for lighting circuits which I don't believe. This may have just been copied into the new EICR.
- the IR tests on the ring mains and lighting was not done due to "unable to remove all load sockets, lighting had electronic dimmers"

There's still a dimmer upstairs, but it's downstairs lighting that has the supposed earth leakage.