Advice Please, Want to do the right thing

[Electroreaper]

Hi Guys

Im new to the forum, came on here to find out some answers from experienced sparks.

Ok im not working right now, i have Part P and 17th Edition, a Mate wants me to help him on a job doing voluntary experience, he has 16th but not Part P or 17th, I got a feeling he might want me to sign off the completed work, which is a hotel at a seaside installing fire alarms, smokes/heat/sounders/emergency lighting.

Im not registered, do i have to contact building control? or is it all down to him as i planned on just helping a mate out and gain some more experience.

Just want to do things right and not have any come backs!

Thanks in Advance

 

[rocker]

If you are only part p, whether or not you're registered, you cannot do hotels. They are commercial, you are only qualified to do domestic. Sorry, fella.

 

[MarcT]

A seaside hotel that needs a new fire alarm and emergency lighting, surely not?

Seriously, he should be signing the work off and contacting building control. Is your mate waiting for the 18th ed. to come out?

 

[Electroreaper]

I am no longer limited to domestic with just part p as i have 17th edition, and ive already done commercial work before. But somebody else has always been the one to sign off the work

I was hoping for some sensible answers marcT he has had 15th and 16th and is registered, but like i say i got the feeling he wants me to sign it off as he thinks with me having part p and 17th that i can do it and he thinks he cannot without part p or 17th.

can anyone else help out with some advice

 

[MarcT]

Hotels fall outside the scope of part P, They are covered by the EAW act and BS7671. He can write a certificate confirming that the installation complies with the 17th edition whether he has done the course or not. The important thing is the compliance. If the place caught fire afterwards, then he would have to prove in court his understanding of the 17th edition.
the reason why I mentioned building control, is as a safeguard to him.I cannot see a reason why either of you cant write the EIC. You would also need to comply with BS 5839 and BS5266 and relevant part of the building regs.

 

[rocker]

Yes that's what I meant you cant sign off commercial.

When you say you have 17th what do you mean? What actual qualification have you got; that is going to make the difference.

If you ARE qualified to sign off commercial work, and you are actually working on the installation and monitoring and checking what others are doing, I'm not sure theres any reason you shouldn't sign it off, but without a scheme you would have to go through building control. That said, if you are working for free for this geezer, you are signing your name to say that this installation is safe - I would be wanting several grand for that. How much public liability insurance do you have? You will need a considerable amount.

Do a bit of work to gain experience by all means, but personally I wouldn't get anywhere near considering signing anything off unless I was the gaffer and getting paid gaffers money.

 

[Spudnik]

To be honest, you dont need any quals at all to carry out industrial or commercial works BUT, most insurance companies and or hotels will require registration with one of the approved schemes.

Your friend needs to check with the client first, otherwise there could be repercussions if things went wrong.

I would be more concerned that the safety systems are installed as per their BS's.

 

[martysparky]

I am no longer limited to domestic with just part p as i have 17th edition, and ive already done commercial work before. But somebody else has always been the one to sign off the work

I was hoping for some sensible answers marcT he has had 15th and 16th and is registered, but like i say i got the feeling he wants me to sign it off as he thinks with me having part p and 17th that i can do it and he thinks he cannot without part p or 17th.

can anyone else help out with some advice

I have Part P and 17th edition but that does not mean I can do commercial or industrial as I am not a fully qualified lecky.

Whatever work you do with part P means you have to be registered with a sceme provider so they can in tern notify build control. If you have done com work before I guess you have just worked under them.

I would say for insurance and regulatory reasons your mate is responsible for the work he takes on. Is he qualified? is he trying to use your name for the job. sorry but thats what I would be thinking. If he don't want you to sign anything great. He could just be pulling ya leg of course. lol

 

[rocker]

Yea sorry I forgot, anybody can write some figures on a bit of paper. Here's an idea, why not pay a tramp to sign it.


Not really sure what the point in all this trying to regulate the industry, paying god knows what for qualifications etc is. Balls to it, any geezer off the street can write a certificate, I think I might just give up now.....

 

[sparks72]

The moral of the story is......
if you don't know how or are unsure how to install, test & commision fire alarms
don't do them.

 

[scotsparky]

Correct me if i am wrong but only the supply circuit and routing of cabeles to the fire alarm panel would fall under 7671. All other wirng and siting of fire detection and alarm equipment would come under the frelevent BS (cant remember NO). As such the the main problem is the commisioning of the system not the supply.

 

[Electroreaper]

Thank you to all that have replied and the advice given.

my pov is its his job so he should sign it off, but like i have said ive been given the impression that he wanted me to sign jobs off or for the electrical distributor to connect the supply because Part P is required for that with their terms.

just wanted the info as i do not want to be liable for not contacting or paying building control or liable in case of an accident.

i know and want to get registered but with not being self employed or employed at the moment its makes no sense to shell out the money.

And i think i know what you mean about the commercial work as i am not an electrical contractor to setup such jobs and insurance etc

 

[garyinderby]

just an observation but what chance does the general public stand of understanding Part P if many of the guys (electricians) dont understand what it is?

Gary

 

[rocker]

Gary you're damn right there. I love all this 'I have a part p qualification' stuff! I know it's a section of the building regs, but even I put on all my fliers and adverts 'part p qualified' cos that's what the public want to see.

Electroreaper you're absolutely right to be thinking that. Don't sign anything off unless you're absolutely sure you know what you're doing and getting proper money - even eveything may be done totally properly but something goes wrong a few years down the line, and you're up in the dock. I guarantee you, the favour you did a 'mate' won't be repaid in court. Don't let anyone bully you into it, it ain't worth the hassle.

 

[kung]

And how many calls do we all get from people who say " But i only need you to sign the job off "
yer ok tell you what you pull it all out again and ir'll install it to bs7671 and part p then i will sign it off then you pay me and jobs a goodun ! comprende ?