Advice required regarding finding a suitable "certifier" when not personally registered

[david bell]

I am an old "spark" who is looking to re-enter the industry working self-employed in domestic premises. Can any of you kind folk help with the following.

I am City and Guilds qualified (A and B ) and also have the 17th edition certificate. However due to working in other fields / abroad for many many years I have no chance of becoming "registered" any time soon and therefore I will obviously have issues when completing any work that is notifiable.

However I read the following extract on the net that states, "From April 2014 you will also be able to employ a non-registered electrical installer who has appointed a registered third party certifier to carry out the required inspection and testing of the work both during and on completion."

I would like to hear the views on this from people currently in the trade and also ask if anyone does any work as a "certifier" or where they can be found.

thanks in advance, DB

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I think it's the other way around. The person posting uses somebody else to regularly certify their work.

Seems like there's some database to search if you're looking for a guy.

I think it's still a bit frowned upon but I kinda get it now. (I'm not an electrician see, so this is new to me too!)

It's perfectly legit, not a dodgy 'workaround'. The government introduced it in (i think) 2013 as another way of notifying work without directly involving building control.

 

[Dan]

That's akin to the old Texan Gun rule, putting it in Mega's terms.....?

So you can fire a gun and drive a vehicle whilst drunk, but if you run somebody over, THEN you get done for driving drunk and firing a gun? Or something? I saw that on Top Gear so perhaps that's rubbish lol
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It's perfectly legit, not a dodgy 'workaround'. The government introduced it in (i think) 2013 as another way of notifying work without directly involving building control.

I'm getting clued up on this as I read by the looks of it.

With it being frowned upon, I assumed dodgy.

Our plumbing forum has a similar situation with Gas Engineers employing a dozen people, and only one bloke signing them all off. And never looking over the boilers.

I think that's not legit. And I initially thought it was the same situation with the sparks. But clearly not.

 

[Megawatt]

Telectrix it’s confusing across the pond I think that it’s so much

megawatt. it's a minefield here. any qualified electrician can certify his work, but in the domestic sector, some works need to be notified to building control. this entails one of 3 options.
1. pay a scheme c. £600 per year.
2. pay building control c. £300 per job.
3. get it overseen by a member of a scheme to notify.

without any of that, no matter how qualified you are, you are breaking the law. however, said law has never been enforced unless something has gone wrong.

Telectrix I didn’t know how things are done sorry to say this but I’ll stay in the USA to much confusion on my end

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I'm getting clued up on this as I read by the looks of it.

With it being frowned upon, I assumed dodgy.

Our plumbing forum has a similar situation with Gas Engineers employing a dozen people, and only one bloke signing them all off. And never looking over the boilers.

I think that's not legit. And I initially thought it was the same situation with the sparks. But clearly not.

It's frowned upon if someone who isn't a 3rd party certifier signs off someone else's work, although I'm sure it happens all the time, much like with our cousins over at the plumbing forum. Also, there are a lot of sparks who just don't know about the 3rd party thing, so when they hear it being done they assume it's dodgy.

 

[Dan]

That's exactly what I thought.

So as a forum, we need to make people aware really. We're seeing threads with grown men arguing over this kinda thing. Even qualified blokes not knowing what they're perhaps already doing is legit. At least in some circumstances perhaps.

A fine line I guess if the other certification companies don't do it too. There must be a reason it's not taken on board by all. And I'm guessing it's down to the certifier not really knowing how the work is really done, behind the scenes, and their name is going against it long term.

So I can see the reasons behind not supporting it perhaps.

But if the government allow it, it's not a forum issue. It's a country issue.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I suspect it may be a money issue. If I don't join the NICEIC or ELECSA because I can use a 3rd party certifier, then they lose out on £££s each year. Don't be thinking standards are somehow higher with these 2 schemes - until very recently you could join either with no experience at all, vs. minimum 2 years for STROMA or NAPIT.

 

[Dan]

Fair comment. It's a minefield that needs clearing up. It's clearly confusing guys who have even been qualified for years. We have had a lot of these threads on here end up heated over the years. Can perhaps link to this one from others in the future perhaps.

 

[david bell]

Why would you have no chance of signing up with a scheme for notifiable jobs ?

Wow this is a sore subject I think. I didn't realise there was literature out there advising people that they can find a "certifier" or become one! I'm not an electrician myself so this is all gobbldygook to me. But I think this is frowned upon in most circumstances. Bit of a loophole with regards to whos head goes on the chopper if things go wrong is the way I understood it.

But if it's a case of not being able to get certified yourself, so you need somebody to do it, then there should in theory be businesses going around charging to be your certifier? Not sure.

Welcome to the forum either way. Thanks for asking on here.

Why would you have no chance of signing up with a scheme for notifiable jobs ?

Thanks to everyone for their rapid responses. I think maybe I am asking the wrong question. The question should possibly be: Considering that I do have City and Guilds A and B (gained in the 80's) and the 17th edition cert., what else do I need - if anything - to be allowed to do notifiable work or is it just a case that I can do the work but need to simply inform certain bodies.

Once again thanks for the replies.

 

[Andy78]

Thanks to everyone for their rapid responses. I think maybe I am asking the wrong question. The question should possibly be: Considering that I do have City and Guilds A and B (gained in the 80's) and the 17th edition cert., what else do I need - if anything - to be allowed to do notifiable work or is it just a case that I can do the work but need to simply inform certain bodies.

Once again thanks for the replies.

You might just need to update to the 18th edition regs qual to be fair. Give them a ring and ask their requirements. Also give your local authority a call and ask what they would need for you to notify work direct to them without a scheme as middle man. Some don't even charge where some charge you hundreds per job.

 

[Megawatt]

It's frowned upon if someone who isn't a 3rd party certifier signs off someone else's work, although I'm sure it happens all the time, much like with our cousins over at the plumbing forum. Also, there are a lot of sparks who just don't know about the 3rd party thing, so when they hear it being done they assume it's dodgy.

If you are on his job

You might just need to update to the 18th edition regs qual to be fair. Give them a ring and ask their requirements. Also give your local authority a call and ask what they would need for you to notify work direct to them without a scheme as middle man. Some don't even charge where some charge you hundreds per job.

Andy do y’all have to go to continuing education classes every year for your Electrician certifications ?

 

[Andy78]

If you are on his job

Andy do y’all have to go to continuing education classes every year for your Electrician certifications ?

Our wiring regulations get updated every so often, a new edition every decade or so with amendments to that edition every 2 or three years. Competent persons schemes and employers expect all workers to be conversant with the latest regulations. This usually means having a qualification to the latest edition, but not necesarilly to the latest amendment of that edition. Every amendment generally means the purchase of a new book for those who need them at a cost of around £80.

For example we currently work to the 18th edition of the wiring regs (2018) which came into effect 01 Jan 2019.
The 17th edition was published in 2008 with amendments in 2011, 2013, and 2015.

 

[Megawatt]

Our wiring regulations get updated every so often, a new edition every decade or so with amendments to that edition every 2 or three years. Competent persons schemes and employers expect all workers to be conversant with the latest regulations. This usually means having a qualification to the latest edition, but not necesarilly to the latest amendment of that edition. Every amendment generally means the purchase of a new book for those who need them at a cost of around £80.

For example we currently work to the 18th edition of the wiring regs (2018) which came into effect 01 Jan 2019.
The 17th edition was published in 2008 with amendments in 2011, 2013, and 2015.

In the USA you have to go to a 10 hour class every year which cost $ 100.00 and our license expires every year and to get them renewed we have to got to class then pay the board of electrical contractors which is $ 85.00

 

[Deleted account]

Thanks to everyone for their rapid responses. I think maybe I am asking the wrong question. The question should possibly be: Considering that I do have City and Guilds A and B (gained in the 80's) and the 17th edition cert., what else do I need - if anything - to be allowed to do notifiable work or is it just a case that I can do the work but need to simply inform certain bodies.

Once again thanks for the replies.

In my humble opinion I think you’ve ready got what is needed to get on a compitant installers scheme. They will probably pass you with the proviso you get your 18th within a certain timeframe.

 

[david bell]

You might just need to update to the 18th edition regs qual to be fair. Give them a ring and ask their requirements. Also give your local authority a call and ask what they would need for you to notify work direct to them without a scheme as middle man. Some don't even charge where some charge you hundreds per job.

thanks once again for all replies, by giving "them" a ring Andy do you mean the NIECC?

 

[Andy78]

thanks once again for all replies, by giving "them" a ring Andy do you mean the NIECC?

Yes, give whoever you intend to join a call and ask about their requirements.