AFDDs for single-socket circuits

[Selfmade]

Haven't been on here for a while, so sorry if this has been discussed before.

BS7671 2018 + A2 Regulation 421.1.7 recommends AFDDs for "single-phase AC circuits supplying socket outlets..." (requires in certain premises). My intention is that from September 27th I will recommend them to customers (in practice I already do in some situations) and require a signed waiver if they don't want the expense. At least I will do so for the actual Sockets Circuits - typically ring final, serving a number of sockets for general use and sometimes also fixed equipment via FCUs.

What I'm not sure about is circuits that serve just a single socket, such as a dedicated circuit for a fridge or an oven. In the case of a fridge, it will likely draw less than 2A, so an AFDD is unlikely to perform any useful function. In the case of an oven, one could justify cutting off the plug and connecting it via an FCU, in which case the circuit is no longer supplying a socket, yet with or without a socket it's still the same appliance and the same wiring. Yet in both cases if a socket is fitted an AFDD is recommended according to the regs.

BTW I understand a case could be made for AFDD protection for an oven and oven circuit. But for this question I'm just interested in the definition of 'circuits supplying socket outlets' for the purposes of this recommendation.

 

[Markyd]

Which regulation states that a waiver is required?

3 mins into vid

 

[Dustydazzler]

Rather than messing about with Waivers

I will probably end up doing 2 quotes for future board changes

Quote 1 - The expensive option with AFFDDDs

Quote 2 - The slightly less expensive option without AFFDDDs

On the bottom of quote 2 , it is say that AFFDDDs were offered as an upgraded option but declined

 

[timhoward]

3 mins into vid

None of that text is in the regs.
They have made it look like it is, but it isn't.

All the regs say is:
"For other premises, the use of AFDDs conforming to BS EN 62606 is recommended for single-phases AC final circuits supplying socket-outlets not exceeding 32A"

 

[Markyd]

None of that text is in the regs.
They have made it look like it is, but it isn't.

All the regs say is:
"For other premises, the use of AFDDs conforming to BS EN 62606 is recommended for single-phases AC final circuits supplying socket-outlets not exceeding 32A"

If you dont want to cover your backside....... You carry on then.......

 

[Dustydazzler]

I guess the other thing to possibly consider , if if you fit a fully RCBOs board as the customer can't afford the upgrade to AFFDDDs , should we make sure that we are fitting boards that at a latter date the home owner could swap out some of the RCBOs for AFFDDDs. Will all makes of consumer unit offer a AFFDDD that will fit in a single way in their current board models

 

[loz2754]

As AFDDs are recommended in all other situations than those specified in the regs, some installers would choose to pass on the recommendation (along with the cost).

But there are many uses of the word "recommended" in the regs. Should we follow the same logic of covering our own arrses and pass on these recommendations as well?

 

[timhoward]

If you dont want to cover your backside....... You carry on then.......

I don't actually feel any need to when page 18 of the regs clearly defines normative and informative elements.
As @loz2754 points out it would be a long list to get waivers signed for everything that is recommended that we don't do.

I prefer to tell customers what is required and what is recommended and help them make informed choices. Making them sign something is (to my mind) creating a false impression of severity relating to the consequences.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Yes AFDDs are only a recommendation but after September will need a waiver signed by the client to say they dont want them, which will cover you when their tv blows up and they say you didnt recommend using one

Isn’t that SPDs?

 

[Markyd]

Isn’t that SPDs?

After Sept SPDs are mandatory and the only way you can get out of fitting one is if the customer signs a waiver.

 

[Dustydazzler]

NO....after Sept SPDs are mandetory

Will they come supplied 'as Standard' with every Screwfix special consumer unit ?

Bet they don't

 

[davesparks]

3 mins into vid

That's not the regulations, that's the video creators opinion of what the regulations should say.

 

[ipf]

Arc Fault Finding Damage Detection Devices?

AFFDDD....I can understand (or imagine, at least) what the extra F stands for, you could even put it in front of the A.....it's all those D's that confuse me.

 

[mainline]

Will my TV blow up if I don't fit an AFFDDD ?

Yes it will in the end buts that's whether you fit one or not

 

[mainline]

Ahhhh yes but the customer might want them and might be happy to pay for them. Who am I to make a value judgement on their cost/benefit analysis?

Personally if I was doing a CU in my own home I'd probably fit an AFDD for the kitchen sockets but not bother elsewhere.

You should also point out to the customer that the device will fail at some point, but you don't know when

 

[Welchyboy1]

Ha that’s a good one! Must be a manufacturers video

what works are not primarily designed and engineered around cost

so how much is a CU change going to be now approx?

8-10 type A rcbos, SPD, 12way board with main switch, approx 3 afdds for socket circuits, plus bits and pieces, days labour for fitting and testing, plus allowance for returning to site for further investigation if afdd starts playing up on an appliance that you couldn't detect during testing

must be talking £1000-1200 plus a bit of VAT

thats going to be a hard sell for most electricians I would guess depending on your area in the country

like others have said, I think I will be offering budget, mid-range and premium versions of a consumer unit change