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Discuss Agency and Umbrella companies, is it worth it. in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

sham

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I am really in need of work, I have applied to jobs via internet and got a call, telling me that I am ready to start but I need to join an umbrella company.

I have heard of these types of companies and most people have bad things to say about them and a few say they are ok. It's seems to be all agency controlled now with umbrella.

Are they that bad?
 
You just end up paying twice the amount of NI, one personal NI and an Employers NI. Apart from that it’s not too bad, are you qualified? If your qualified you can go CIS and get payed direct as self employed.
 
You just end up paying twice the amount of NI, one personal NI and an Employers NI. Apart from that it’s not too bad, are you qualified? If your qualified you can go CIS and get payed direct as self employed.
Can you please explain how CIS works with umbrella companies.
 
Theres usually 3 options from an agency:
1. Use umbrella scheme. Dont ask, can get complex.
2. CIS (you must be registered). A better idea if you already SE
3. PAYE for the agency. You pay NI and probably a better idea if your not SE.
 
Corporation tax is an advantage...but only IF you don't need to draw the income. Paying tax twice is not a good idea. Honestly, get an accountant to set you straight. Always be in total control of your own personal finances. SE is the best way to maximise allowable claims for expenses yet still sleep well knowing you are ok with the taxman.
If you are earning much more than you need/can spend..(that would be nice!) then go for the multiple company setup and bang the surplus into pension, within the limits HMRC allow. If not, don't be tempted by any scheme that suggests you will be better off under an umbrella scheme...it's not for you.
And for the record, my advice is from personal experience, and is not applicable to everyone, and not worth sueing me for, as this is NOT professional advice! Get an accountant in!
 
If you are self employed, you are probably already registered with HMRC as self employed.
If not, then that’s your first step.
Second step is to register for CIS.
The Construction Industry Scheme, operates by whoever pays you deducting 20% Tax from your money, which you declare as tax paid when you do your self assessment.
The CIS people will send you a UTR number.
The Unique Tax Reference number is to be given to whoever pays you and they have to check with the CIS people to ensure you are registered and how much tax they should deduct.
If you do not have a UTR number or if it cannot be verified the tax deducted is 30%.
After one year registered as CIS, you could apply for zero % tax. That way whenever someone verified your UTR number, they would be informed of your zero % tax status and nothing would be deducted.

Signing up with agencies is pretty straight forward, phone them, email a copy of your passport, JIB card, qualifications and other certificates or cards.

If you are offered and accept work, you will be paid through a Payroll company.
They will need to be told your UTR no, bank account details and will probably want a copy of your passport.

The payroll companies pay you by either of two methods.
CIS where they will first deduct their management fee, then deduct the tax and pay you what is left over.

Umbrella/PAYE where they will first deduct their management fee, deduct tax NI and employer’s NI and pay you what is left over.
It is the agencies which decide whether you should be paid CIS or Umbrella/PAYE.

There are two other methods of being paid.
Ltd company where you invoice the agencies (some will do this for you), the agencies then pay your Ltd Co direct, after first deducting any tax.
The Ltd Co must first register for CIS and will be issued a UTR number.

PAYE, on some Government projects such as Cross Rail, the agencies will employ you direct.
They will deduct PAYE tax and NI and pay you what is left over.
They should allow you to claim expenses, such as travel, subsistence, laundry, etc and any expenses should be accounted for before tax and NI is deducted.
There are many methods that agencies will prevent you from claiming expenses.
Contract stating the work is a fixed term, contract stating you are employed from site, pluss others I don’t know about or just blatant refusal to process any claims for expenses. This means you will have to claim the expenses through self assessment.

I don’t accept work if it is to be paid Umbrella/PAYE.

One other thing I have noted recently, is that some agencies will not pay a Ltd Co direct, they pay through a Payroll company which means you get charged the management fee.

I have recently been offered work at THFC from various agencies. PCR, OHUK, Diamond and BMSL.

PCR offered me Fire alarm installation, stating that previous experience of working at THFC would be preferred.

OHUK offered me electrical installation with a company called Imtech, would not accept workers who had previously worked at THFC and would only pay Umbrella/PAYE.

Diamond were offering electrical installation with Imtech, not sure about previous work at THFC or how workers are paid.

BMSL also offered electrical installation with Imtech, not bothered about previous work at THFC and pay CIS.

The 3 agencies offering work for Imtech are all offering ÂŁ2200 per week for 80 hours work.
The difference between BMSL paying CIS and OHUK paying Umbrella CIS will be about ÂŁ350 to ÂŁ400 per week.

In the past I have been phoned by an agency offering me work on a site I was already working at through another agency.
The work was for the same company I was already working for doing the same work. The pay offered was ÂŁ1 per hour less.

Agencies do lie.
They will offer on going work which turns out to be for a fixed term.
They will offer 3 months which turns out to be 9 days.
 
Agency list 3

AASL 020 8763 6122>
Alltype solutions 020 8859 6327>
Achieve 0845 363 2004
Ajs 020 8597 7000>
Apex 020 3170 8792
APR 020 8987 5499
Aspire 020 3372 2855
ATR 0845 241 4088
Blade 020 7619 6450
Bluebaring 01708 476696
Breeze 020 8275 8843
BMSL 020 7826 4400
Capital 020 8605 2800
Caval 0113 203 1242
CCS 0161 488 2800
Chanton 020 8900 9022
City site 020 7945 6299
CMS 01784 224215
Compass 0113 212 2980
Construction elite 020 7183 3718
Coyles 020 7256 6515
CSS 01376 330701
Duttons 020 8591 6300
Diamond 01268 570570
Elecfast 01732 820000
Elite 0845 833 3890
Fastback 01273 423063
Firststep 0844 576 3800
Grafters 020 8471 0011
Gold 01342 330500
Gulmanda 020 7281 6777
Hays Montrose 020 7259 8710
Icd 020 8427 8437
Le Breton 0121 616 5013
Mango 0844 844 0903
Meridien 029 2034 7930
Munnelly's 020 8515 0313
NRL 0191 415 3300
Now 0121 452 4442
Novo 07710 450603
Onsite 0845 070 3883
Optima 020 8783 9222
Options 020 7621 2200
Pod 01895 822495
Purple squirrel 020 3292 0360
Parkwood 0121 693 2255
Paul roc 07978 808492
PRS 020 7553 5660
Profile technical 020 3170 6280
Rullion 020 7397 6525
Right direction 0844 257 9719>Rye 0845 539 5369
Saints 020 8344 2844
Search 0131 718 8023
SOS 023 8038 5260
Technical resources 01932>837774
Tech-people 01628 567043
Tradesmenforlondon 020 7627 6710
United solutions 01664 812210
Vital 020 7824 5144
Venture 01277 725237
Workmate 01865 335370
Wise 020 3589 0990

If you get stuck for work. Agencies....
Exxell: 01483654464
Fasttrack: 01923813100
SOS: 01277849289
Resourcing Solution: 01189320100
 
Corporation tax is an advantage...but only IF you don't need to draw the income. Paying tax twice is not a good idea. Honestly, get an accountant to set you straight. Always be in total control of your own personal finances. SE is the best way to maximise allowable claims for expenses yet still sleep well knowing you are ok with the taxman.
If you are earning much more than you need/can spend..(that would be nice!) then go for the multiple company setup and bang the surplus into pension, within the limits HMRC allow. If not, don't be tempted by any scheme that suggests you will be better off under an umbrella scheme...it's not for you.
And for the record, my advice is from personal experience, and is not applicable to everyone, and not worth sueing me for, as this is NOT professional advice! Get an accountant in!
Thank you Pirate, allot if info there to revise and study.
 
Guys I do honestly appreciate all this advise. I've have even copied and pasted some of it on a word document, for later reading.
Thank you !!
 

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