Agency trying to screw me over?

[Shane Mullan]

I got offered a job and was told I would be paid £11 an hour PAYE. My contact at the agency has now left and the payroll person is now telling me I have to sign up to their umbrella company where the umbrella will pay me PAYE.

Surely they are screwing me over, as now I will have employers NI deducted, as well as £15 umbrella fee a week!? (Originally they said it was PAYE directly)

I have worked there for over a month now and have been paying £12 a day on travel, I would not have taken the job if I knew I would have other money deducted. A colleague told me I might be better off getting a UTR number as that way the umbrella will take off expenses? (such as food and travel... of which I didn't keep any receipts for).

If anyone could offer advice or clarification on umbrellas and UTRs/CIS then I'd really appreciate it. I'm currently stuck with having worked over a month without being paid and have my bills coming out. It's all very confusing for someone that has not worked in industry before

 

[telectrix]

why have they not paid you for a month? you should have been paid 1 week in hand.

 

[Shane Mullan]

They haven't paid me because I haven't signed up to their umbrella company. I was waiting for them to pay me PAYE directly as agreed. So although they are happy to pay me, I won't end up being paid what I was expected from them... I'll be about £300 a month worse off

 

[Leesparkykent]

Ltd would be the way to go if your agency as it would be the most financially beneficial. If I was you I would sign up to the umbrella company and take what you can otherwise it will be weeks/months before you set up as ltd, company account and company CIS etc.

 

[Shane Mullan]

Ltd would be the way to go if your agency as it would be the most financially beneficial. If I was you I would sign up to the umbrella company and take what you can otherwise it will be weeks/months before you set up as ltd, company account and company CIS etc.

Thank you very much for that helpful advice.
Would I still be better off going limited if I'm only on £11 an hour?

 

[telectrix]

Thank you very much for that helpful advice.
Would I still be better off going limited if I'm only on £11 an hour?

you'd be far better off trying to find employment with a small local contractor who would also be a lot more help in expanding on your knowledge.

 

[Madocks]

Usually theres a price for PAYE and a price for umberella, the PAYE is generally 2-3 quid less per hour to cover their costs.

If your going with an umbrella, then I would speak to other lads on site, 11 quid an hour is crap to incur those costs..........

 

[davesparks]

What does it say in your contract?

 

[Shane Mullan]

I think the bloke told me it was PAYE just to get me to accept the job, now he's left the agency I can't even argue it.
I haven't signed a contracts for this agency

 

[davesparks]

I think the bloke told me it was PAYE just to get me to accept the job, now he's left the agency I can't even argue it.
I haven't signed a contracts for this agency

Surely you must have completed and some paperwork or signed some sort of agreement when you started working for them?

 

[Shane Mullan]

Surely you must have completed and some paperwork or signed some sort of agreement when you started working for them?

No, nothing like that. It was just a phone call where he said I would be paid £11 PAYE, then I emailed my passport and ECS card and I was on site the next day! No written contract, no written agreement. I haven't signed anything

 

[Madocks]

and youve worked for them for a month ? with no paperwork?

Any email confirming start date etc?

 

[Tes369]

Sign up to the payroll company you should get potentially 3 or 4 weeks money in one whack. You said you've worked over a month I'm assumining you've been there 5.

* Also send in your expenses.. download their expense form put in how much travel your doing to work etc plus don't forget the amount of time your spending out of the house.

* I've been self employed for years speak to an accountant see if he can set you up etc.. ?

* Payroll companies are scum they make you pay 2 lots of national insurance contributions your contribution and the employers share NIERS which is highly illegal but still nothing gets done about it.

* If I were you for now I'd go through the payroll so you can get paid don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Some are better than others but their still scum.

Ltd isn't all its cracked up to be the IR35 man is coming he's going to be cracking down hard. My accountant told me that and he was on about the industry as a whole.

I think it will go back to CIS like the good old days.

 

[Shane Mullan]

and youve worked for them for a month ? with no paperwork?

Any email confirming start date etc?

I have a text message confirming start date

 

[Tes369]

* Have you been putting in your timesheets..?

* You need to get paid if you put in last weeks timesheet and join the payroll this week (it needs to be done straight away or on your break) you'll have a nice amount of money Friday. And be paid again following friday.

 

[Shane Mullan]

* Have you been putting in your timesheets..?

* You need to get paid if you put in last weeks timesheet and join the payroll this week (it needs to be done straight away or on your break) you'll have a nice amount of money Friday. And be paid again following friday.

Yeah I've been putting in my time sheets (or rather just emailing them my total hours and what days I worked).
If I was to open a ltd company (once talking with accountant) and get a UTR number for the ltd company under the CIS scheme, would IR35 apply to me? If so then I think I'm better off just waiting until I'm fully qualified rather than working as a Sparks Mate/Improver?

 

[Tes369]

I think IR35 is basically if the taxman thinks your setup as a company strictly for tax avoidance I'm not that informed about tax etc

Plenty of lads are Ltd though.

You should just go through their payroll company and get paid.

How many weeks do they owe you now you should have a nice sum ...?

Also the Electrical Contractor you work for has to confirm all your hours with agency/payroll you don't want them thinking your being awkward on purpose ?

 

[Shane Mullan]

They owe me about 6 weeks, I'm about to end my contract there because it's a waste for me to spend £20 a day on food and travel, and 4h commuting. To then just get paid through an umbrella that takes out employers NI and admin fees of £60 month.
Tbh I do need to get the pay they owe me sorted out but more importantly I need to decide how I am going to do it moving forwards

 

[Tes369]

Get your money mate

*Ask what payroll companies they use ?

*Don't forget get to stick in your expenses it's worth a try ?

* Unless your CIS or ltd payroll companies are a sad reality the system needs a enema.

* You can go self employed and get an accountant to set it up for you i know Electrical improver who have done that.

Cheers

 

[uksrevivor]

Im currently in the same boat so to speak i accepted work through an agency as a mate and have had to use an umbrella company to get payed, 40 hours a week crap money at £10 per hour and that includes my holiday pay as well apparently but the company have supplied a hire vehicle and i do get all my fuel costs and travel payed the travel is inclusive in my 40 hr week so i leave site early to suit travel but at the end of the day work is work.

 

[Madocks]

Im currently in the same boat so to speak i accepted work through an agency as a mate and have had to use an umbrella company to get payed, 40 hours a week crap money at £10 per hour and that includes my holiday pay as well apparently but the company have supplied a hire vehicle and i do get all my fuel costs and travel payed the travel is inclusive in my 40 hr week so i leave site early to suit travel but at the end of the day work is work.

Where in South wales are you, lad in neath is looking for a level 2 as a mate.

 

[Shane Mullan]

Im currently in the same boat so to speak i accepted work through an agency as a mate and have had to use an umbrella company to get payed, 40 hours a week crap money at £10 per hour and that includes my holiday pay as well apparently but the company have supplied a hire vehicle and i do get all my fuel costs and travel payed the travel is inclusive in my 40 hr week so i leave site early to suit travel but at the end of the day work is work.

hire vehicle is a bonus but still sucks that you're stuck with umbrella.

I've just formed a limited company to get paid but I don't trust my accountants! They're telling me that I can withdraw my money from my company account whenever I want it and noone is there to question me. Apparently I don't have to pay myself a salary and dividends because I already will have the 20% CIS deduction. It all sounds a bit dodge... Starting to seem like I should go back to umbrella now :L

 

[Madocks]

hire vehicle is a bonus but still sucks that you're stuck with umbrella.

I've just formed a limited company to get paid but I don't trust my accountants! They're telling me that I can withdraw my money from my company account whenever I want it and noone is there to question me. Apparently I don't have to pay myself a salary and dividends because I already will have the 20% CIS deduction. It all sounds a bit dodge... Starting to seem like I should go back to umbrella now :L

Hes right, however his bill will be £x per year so make sure theres that in the bank per week.

Your tax will all be taken care off from the CIS, keep receipts for claimable items as you counter the CIS with them

 

[Shane Mullan]

Hes right, however his bill will be £x per year so make sure theres that in the bank per week.

Your tax will all be taken care off from the CIS, keep receipts for claimable items as you counter the CIS with them

My housemate (works as IT Contractor, not CIS) tells me that if I withdraw money from my business account, it's classed as a directors loan and I will be fined if I don't pay it back. I take it the rule must be different then with CIS. I don't want to just blindly trust my accountant because at the end of the day, I'll be the one HMRC comes after if something is wrong

 

[Madocks]

I’m a ltd company, non cis.

I would rather trust my accountant than my flatmate

Call a second accountant for a second opinion

 

[Shane Mullan]

If you'e not CIS then surely you get taxed 30% at source? Or I guess you dont do site work.

My housemate did accountancy at uni so I trust him quite a bit. My accountants made me second think them when they had problems opening my limited company for me and it was me that had to resubmit my application to company's house. They blamed it on a computer glitch but honestly the whole time it seemed as though they' never done the process before

It's a good idea. I think I will get another accountants opinion

 

[Madocks]

Dont work for others, if i do rarely my invoices state "consultancy fee" which is non construction work

If your with an accountant and you are newly LTD, then just change accountant?

Does your accountant know your income info? Lets put it simply.......

£11 an hour
40 hours a week = £410
48 Weeks work = £19680
National tax allowance = £11,500

Taxable income = £8180

Income deducated by CIS = £3936

So......... your taxable income is £8.1k..... minus any expenses you put through for tools etc....... youve already paid almost 4k into CIS. So at the end of the year your account will file for a CIS refund.

 

[davesparks]

No, nothing like that. It was just a phone call where he said I would be paid £11 PAYE, then I emailed my passport and ECS card and I was on site the next day! No written contract, no written agreement. I haven't signed anything

So on the basis of a phone call to someone you’ve never met you’ve handed over your personal details including your passport and then done a number of weeks work with no contract or clue how you will get paid?

In this day and age of security concerns and identity theft your not exactly helping yourself are you?

 

[uksrevivor]

Where in South wales are you, lad in neath is looking for a level 2 as a mate.

Nantymoel near bridgend have you got any details please pm me if still available
Much appreciated