Altering circuits to conform to 17th edition

[roukel01]

Hello All.

I understand that if you alter or add to an existing circuit (i.e extra sockets etc) that the circuit must conform to the latest regs before you commence work, and so for example, if someone wanted some extra sockets on an existing circuit that wasn't RCD Protected then this would have to be rectified first before any additions can be installed.

OK, what about other smaller minor works that you still should issue Minor Works certificates for, for example changing a broken light switch or a faulty panel heater? should you have to upgrade these circuits to staisfy latest 17th edition regs before you can carry out work on these circuits, or do you simply put a note in the "comments on existing installation" box??

Might sound a strange question but I'm just a bit confused as to where you draw the line on having to upgrade a system before you can work on it.

Thanks all

 

[not clever]

Changing switches like for like due to damage (maintenance work) I just make a note in the comments box on MWC, if the work involves changing/adding any cable then I put in an rcd (remote rcd on 3036 db's).

 

[Spudnik]

If you are swapping or repairing accessories then even a MWC is not required and therefore the circuit does not need to meet the 17th.

 

[roukel01]

If you are swapping or repairing accessories then even a MWC is not required and therefore the circuit does not need to meet the 17th.

Unfortunatley that is not what we were taught on both 17th Edition Regs course and 2391, in both courses they stated more than once that if you touch a circuit, no matter how minor (including changing accessries) then a minor Works Certificate mussed be issued and the circuit must be tested for safety.

I've just checked the regs and the Minor Electrical Works notes state the following...

"Minor works are intended to be used for additions and alterations to an installation........ including replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires......"

This is why I'm confused as to where to draw the line.

Thanks

 

[Mac]

Comes under Part P mate.Swap like for like,it's non notifiable.
Part P to Building Regulations - The IET

 

[roukel01]

Comes under Part P mate.Swap like for like,it's non notifiable.
Part P to Building Regulations - The IET

I know its not notifiable, neither is adding an extra socket, but if you wanted to add an extra socket you must first make sure the circuit conforms to regs.
This is the whole point of my question.

Changing switches like for like due to damage (maintenance work) I just make a note in the comments box on MWC, if the work involves changing/adding any cable then I put in an rcd (remote rcd on 3036 db's).

Cheers mate, I'd agree with that.

 

[Spudnik]

I've just checked the regs and the Minor Electrical Works notes state the following...

"Minor works are intended to be used for additions and alterations to an installation........ including replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires......"

May i suggest you read it again.

 

[roukel01]

May i suggest you read it again.

not sure I follow you

 

[Spudnik]

Read the notes section again about MWC

 

[chocolate]

Issue a MWC if you are changing the number of accessories on a circuit, or changing the wiring somewhere in that circuit.

Anything that involves changing / adding a circuit breaker / RCD, requires a full electrical installation cert. for that circuit.

If you were to swap a broken socket front for a new one, and that's all you did ( and you haven't technically altered the wiring in any way nor changed the number of accessories ), then you do not need a MWC to be issued.

 

[roukel01]

Read the notes section again about MWC

I have, and am still confused! It reads to me that a MWC is needed for any minor work carried out, and again this is what I was taught in 2 C&G courses.

 

[andekoch]

Issuing a MW cert is a good practice but not necessary for a like for like replacement. Courses like to say you need to issue them because it makes you think about what you are doing.
If you add to a circuit you need to make sure that 'the circuit can handle the aditional load' eg addin a plug does not mean you have to make the whole circuit rcd protected but the piece you add does need to be rcd protected. The existing circuit (as well as the addition) needs an insulation resistance, polarity and Zs test to ensure that the current protective device can safely protect the circuit and its new addition.

 

[Spudnik]

I agree with ande however,

And i quote:

"This certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as......"

The key word here is "may" and not "must".

Makes all the difference.

 

[andekoch]

Quite right Jason. May is the key word as you say. Always nice to leave a cert of sorts though since then at least that way you can show all was well when you left the job.

 

[roukel01]

I agree with ande however,

And i quote:

"This certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as......"

The key word here is "may" and not "must".

Makes all the difference.

It may make all the difference, but again, like my first question asked, where do we draw the line??

Lets put it this way....

I go to a house to change a cracked plastic switch, I notice that there are no earths on that lighting ciircuit but there are brass fittings all over the house, what do I do, simply change the accessory and not worry about it? Or do I issue a minor works and report my findings?

again, I go to a house to change a faulty socket, I take the socket off and find Mr Conservatory Fitter has spurred 5 sockets in the new conservatory without fusing them down, do I simply change Like for Like and not worry or do I issue a minor works and report my findings??

It seems to me that in these senarios, Minor Works would only be issued when something is amiss, and that the certificates are not issued when everything is OK? I suppose this is why these certificates are meant to be issued on every minor work you do as that circuit then becomes your responsability, and this is why they drum this into you on C&G courses.

But my question is this, in the above examples,do you go ahead and change the faulty accessory and not worry whether or not any remidial work is carried out, or do you bring the circuit upto standard before carrying out your repair?