Am I really Saving the enviroment?

[piggyitm]

I just read an snippet in ECA Today saying....

"The ECA is Calling upon the electrical sector to take the lead when advising on installing energy saving technology".

I don't really buy into it myself never mind having to try and blag customers that the price they have to pay to meet part L1A is saving the planet.
I don't think the power station is going to to turn off a turbine for good as a result of me calling everyone an eco terrorist.

I can do the money saving part tho as I'm a right tight sod myself.

How does anyone else here use the Eco-friendly saving to justify the cost?

 

[simpson93]

I refuse to eat Polar bears now.

not been mc donalds recently then?

 

[Kamikaze]

When it comes to global warming, there's bad news and good news.
The bad news is that regular agricultural crops may disappear in Britan over the next century. The good news is, crops that will continue to grow well are the ones currently being grown in basements, attics and garages.
Experts in global warming also predicting that by the year 2050, we will be out of party ice. Now that is depressing!

 

[Knobhead]

What "scams"? PFC?
I'm assuming everyone here was taught about that at college and led to believe that it's a good thing, regardless of whether or not the little plug in units some companies sell actually do anything other than flash a couple of lights at you.

I am referring to household PFC. 1KWHr = 1KWHr. They are being sold to gullible people on the pretext they will lower power consumption, OK they lower current but don’t lower the actual consumption.

I borrowed a capacitor and power monitor from work (the engineering manager was my cousin, he helped me set it all up). Ran everything as normal for a week, then a week with the capacitor. Not one iota of difference in KWHr but lower KVAR. Still had to pay for the KWHr.

In industrial situations the only beneficiary are the power companies due to lower transmission losses. In this case 1KWHr = 1KWHr but not 1KVAR. It’s KVAR that they are billed on. The power companies penalise large users for poor PF simply to make savings in their own system.
That being said on a large site savings are made by lower transmission losses, but they are minimal.

 

[Engineer54]

I would say that most medium to large industrial installations running large and or multiple motor installations and/or switch large loads for short periods many times a day, will be supplied with an additional KVAhr meter(s), to supplement the normal KWhr, in some instances, only KVAhr meters will be installed..

Depending on the amount of losses and where the losses are coming from, will depend on the amount of savings in money terms, a company can make by providing PF correction. As stated, it can also free up cable capacity, along with lowering/reducing current in switchboards, which can be a considerable advantage when they are loaded up to there limits, etc. PF capacitor correction comes in many packages, they can come in stepped Var values automatically ramped up and down according to loads being drawn, to a basic manually operated set up of one or two Var values...

PF is basically ''wattless current'' ....which is a current that is not doing any useful work, but is still flowing in the installations circuits as well as the DNO supply network cables. By adding capacitance into the circuit or installation, will counteract the lagging PF due to induction. Unfortunately PF correction capacitors will only correct between the point at which it's connected/inserted and DNOs generating plant. Generally industrial plants will insert sized Capacitor PF correction, at the main and sub-main DB's which to all intentional purposes will solve penalising charges being incurred...

 

[mayfair]

All meters here on new installs measure KVA hr and KWhr Done a install in July for a commercial customer of Capacitors Cost 2400 euros... 3 supplie, s 3 warehouses just did the one at first, saving in first 3 months averaged 500 euros per month, did the second one in October. Cost 2250 Euros Both units have now paid for themselves and the real saving is starting.

 

[Engineer54]

Newer meters here measure KVA too, but they only record maximum KVA used during a given period. I would understand that, to be keeping an eye out, to check if the installation is consistently going over a set limit!!
Pretty pointless to read both KW and KVA, if your being billed on just one recorded consumption.

Thinking about it, and you saying that your customer has saved money.... maybe your meters will add a penalising charge over a given set limit, though what sort of power requirements warehouses will draw i haven't the foggiest!! lol!!!

 

[mayfair]

thats the way it works ie Penalising charges, Full a freezer units imagine an Iceland store plus all the walk in units and a cafe.......big savings

Newer meters here measure KVA too, but they only record maximum KVA used during a given period. I would understand that, to be keeping an eye out, to check if the installation is consistently going over a set limit!!
Pretty pointless to read both KW and KVA, if your being billed on just one recorded consumption.

Thinking about it, and you saying that your customer has saved money.... maybe your meters will add a penalising charge over a given set limit, though what sort of power requirements warehouses will draw i haven't the foggiest!! lol!!!

 

[robsparky1975]

part L,huh i did a re-wire recently 100 odd 50w gu10s,i did try to do my bit for the planet but do you think they wanted to listen,client "i prefer the light emitted" okay do you prefer the energy bills(went unanswered),until people change their minds on what they are wasting money wise to what they can save,its going to take some time,where i live they want to be 100% green by 2020.that is going to be some challange,although it is only a small population,clients habits need to change first.

 

[mayfair]

By the way the guy had no interest in saving the planet ................Just the money, sums it up i think

 

[Engineer54]

thats the way it works ie Penalising charges, Full a freezer units imagine an Iceland store plus all the walk in units and a cafe.......big savings

Yep, ....I can see quite a bit of power consumption being required in that type of warehouse installation....

Only idiots anoraks and those that have more money than they know what to do with, are not interested in saving money!!! ....haha!!

 

[mogga]

2004 HUMMER H2

Nice enviromentaly friendly vehicle for work I want 1 of these lol

 

[mayfair]

I was working next to a Mustang dealership the other day ........Went and had a look , Gutted they dont do ladder racks ...........cancelled my order, shame eh

2004 HUMMER H2

Nice enviromentaly friendly vehicle for work I want 1 of these lol

 

[mogga]

Hummer do a crew cab thinggy SUV i think they call it

 

[telectrix]

get my ladders in this beast.

 

[Adam W]

part L,huh i did a re-wire recently 100 odd 50w gu10s,i did try to do my bit for the planet but do you think they wanted to listen,client "i prefer the light emitted" okay do you prefer the energy bills(went unanswered),until people change their minds on what they are wasting money wise to what they can save,its going to take some time,where i live they want to be 100% green by 2020.that is going to be some challange,although it is only a small population,clients habits need to change first.

Don't get me wrong I'd rather save the environment than destroy it, but I much prefer the light emitted from a tungsten filament lamp than a CFL one, and I believe overall CFL lamps are worse for the environment.
GU10s are a different issue though - customers seem to think they're 'modern' and I doubt we can change that until something more innovative comes out, even though a 50W halogen GU10 (particularly on a low ceiling) is a massively inefficient way of trying to light a room (torches in a ceiling).

I would say the best way to change consumer habits would be to develop LED lamps (particularly GU10s) to behave in the same way as halogen ones in terms of light output and dimmability.
In the meantime I reckon a better way of selling CFL GU10s would be that they have a wider beam angle so light a room better - like me I think the average 'layman' customer would like to think they're doing their bit but with attitudes like 'needs must' and 'charity begins at home' in most cases functionality triumphs over 'green' issues.