Amendment 2 coming out next year thoughts?

[Gavin John Hyde]

Just been reading an article regards Amendment 2 coming out next year.
The requirements for AFDD is going to create some interesting conversations with customers as they are not cheap. Unless manufacturers get their act together I would be surprised if in 12 months they have stock or are sensibly priced.
Its hard enough to get a consumer unit or RCBO at the moment,

All change with Amendment 2, but what does it mean? | NAPIT

JPEL committee member Frank Bertie unravels some of the finer details behind the upcoming changes in Amendment 2 for BS 7671:2018 (2022). Although the Draft for Public Comment (DPC) period ended in De

professional-electrician.com

 

[Dustydazzler]

do we really need arc fault circuit interceptors ?

really ....

 

[SJD]

DId I read on here not too long ago that in the US, it is not uncommon to fit AFDDs (or whatever they call them over there) on some circuits, but then remove them after sign-off of the work because of nuisance tripping? Or am I imagining this?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

If the afdd reg comes in then that extra.socket for mrs jones has just become £150 more expensive as you would need to price one of these in. Assuming you can get one. Then if there are issues in the circuits try and find it! Joy of joy you could be there 2 days adding a socket.
I guarantee though the drove by eicr brigade will love this and use it to mark otherwise sound installs as unsatisfactory and immediately tell people they must have afdds. Some landlords are going to be fleeced when this does eventually come in.!
Bit like the changes in amd3 which consumer units. How often do we see on the forum some landlord asking about a cheap EICR being unsatisfactory due to plastic board when everything.else is pretty much okay.

 

[Dustydazzler]

roll up roll up , Im Jumping straight on this gravy train

£2500 for a new afdd board swap

heck we will nearly be as expensive as my local gas fitters charging £175 per hour

 

[Welchyboy1]

When paragraph 3 states

What is the point of the article unless it is to condition us for the inevitable

If all the proposals go through it will do nothing to improve safety as it will price people out of updating / upgrading their electrical installation

Totally correct it will now have the opposite effect
How many more add ons do we have to keep up selling to the customer constantly

I (like a lot of others)do a lot of domestic minor works and existing circuit alterations

This will be an absolute nightmare in regards to availability of devices and compatibility with existing brands of consumer units

 

[Rockingit]

Apart from the fiasco that will become foundation earthing, my largest consideration with AFDD's is simply how the heck are we meant to test them. I can see it now that the likes of Megger and Fluke et al are rubbing their hands in glee knowing that soon they'll be selling thousands and thousands of new MFT's......

 

[Rockingit]

OK.... results of some brief research is that basically they can't be tested anyway, beyond the internal T button (am sure this must have been discussed in other threads on here in the past). What WILL be a pain for testing is that you can't do a 500V IR from source side due to the internal electronics so gone are the days of a global IR at the board, each leg needs removing.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Arc Fault Circuit Devices can;t be tested beyond the T button and if they won't hold in then bin it and buy a new one.

 

[UNG]

Apart from the fiasco that will become foundation earthing, my largest consideration with AFDD's is simply how the heck are we meant to test them. I can see it now that the likes of Megger and Fluke et al are rubbing their hands in glee knowing that soon they'll be selling thousands and thousands of new MFT's......

Had a conversation with a couple of guys on the Megger stand at an Elex a couple of years ago when the AFDD's started appearing and they were saying that it was unlikely that there would be a tester available to confirm the operation of AFDD's. The identification of nuisance tripping came into the conversation and the conclusion was you swap it out and if it stops the tripping then it was faulty if not you are looking for a fault on the circuit that may not be found with the test equipment we have and possibly the only way to cost effectively repair would be to rewire the whole circuit

 

[westward10]

DId I read on here not too long ago that in the US, it is not uncommon to fit AFDDs (or whatever they call them over there) on some circuits, but then remove them after sign-off of the work because of nuisance tripping? Or am I imagining this?

No I am pretty sure it was @Megawatt

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Could you not test an afdd by getting two loose wires then using some vde pliers create pretty little arcs..??
In real terms a sort of tazer like device with the arc in an enclosure?

 

[UNG]

Could you not test an afdd by getting two loose wires then using some vde pliers create pretty little arcs..??
In real terms a sort of tazer like device with the arc in an enclosure?

Could you create the right arc signature to trip the AFDD though

 

[Dustydazzler]

Could you create the right arc signature to trip the AFDD though

This D.S vid on Affddds is probably the best explanation of how an Afffdddds work on the web

 

[Welchyboy1]

This D.S vid on Affddds is probably the best explanation of how an Afffdddds work on the web

Great video!

Dreading the thought of starting to install and fault find these when they become required, at least an RCD fault you have a means to test and narrow it down, seems its just a visual inspection is all we can really do in some cases and if no scorch marks are apparent just retighten connections and keep resetting the thing till its happy

Even IR testing will only really work on a parallel fault

Definatly sounds like a good idea with electric shower circuits though

Can see alot of sparkys ducking out of these types of call out in the future

 

[Dustydazzler]

Great video!

Dreading the thought of starting to install and fault find these when they become required, at least an RCD fault you have a means to test and narrow it down, seems its just a visual inspection is all we can really do in some cases and if no scorch marks are apparent just retighten connections and keep resetting the thing till its happy

Even IR testing will only really work on a parallel fault

Definatly sounds like a good idea with electric shower circuits though

Can see alot of sparkys ducking out of these types of call out in the future

Half day call-out , drop off every single point and check every single connection.