Announcement "later today!"

[Markc]

I think this sums it up! Email received doing the rounds.

Makes you think !

Can you imagine working for a company that only has a little more than 635 employees, but, has the following employee statistics..

29 have been accused of spouse abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
9 have been accused of writing bad cheques
17 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year

and collectively, this year alone, they have cost the British tax payer £92,993,748 in
expenses!!!

Which organisation is this?


It's the 635 members of the House of Commons.

The same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.

What a bunch of crooks we have running our country - it says it all...

And just to top all that they probably have the best 'corporate' pension scheme in the country - whilst trying to ensure that everyone else has the worst possible!!

If you agree that this is an appalling state of affairs, please pass it on to everyone you know
​

 

[SolarCity]

84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year

Surely not?! 84 in the last year?

 

[solarsavings]

I was thinking the same. Where did you get this info from mark.

 

[TedM]

Talking through the possibilities of getting D rating today. If you can achieve a d rating with simple installation - have you ever tried to get an insulation firm to come round???? I managed 4 for a few years and it's almost impossible.

So, its April - your customer needs cwi but will reach the d rating or above with it. They arrange for a cwi survey, then installation - meanwhile you wait, and wait and wait for them to get back to you in June to push for an installation before the end of the month and the drop from 21p to 13.6p.

It's going to be carnage .... Need to get everyone geared up now BUT we've no idea how the EPC rating is going to be managed. Has anyone heard what we actually have to do????

My conjecture on the future sales process:

Until an EPC is done you will not know what the rating is for the house (you might guess but you won't know for certain).

It might be a 'D' to start with in which case no further changes will be required. Just go ahead with the PV and get the 21p. If might be an 'E' and the EPC tells you that adding 3kW (or whatever) of PV will take you to a 'D' so no other improvements will be required.

If it is an 'E', or worse, and the PV alone won't bring it up to a 'D' then the owner will have to decide if the work on the deficiencies, which will be listed as 'recommendations' on the EPC, to bring it up to a 'D' or better is worth the effort/cost. They might decide that it is not worth it for PV.

If going ahead with improvements and PV then the owner will need a second EPC to prove that the new rating has been achieved once the work is complete. This new EPC has to be submitted with their FiTs application to their electricity supplier in order to get the full tariff. Without it, at the time of application, they will be on 9p for the next 25 years.

Some houses that start as an 'F' or 'G' may not be possible to bring up to a 'D' in any economic way. These owners will most likely decide not to have PV.

And all this work needs to be completed within a 2 month window (from 1st July).

I'm not sure how installers will approach this. A couple of options (at extremes) are:

a - installer requires the owner to get an EPC completed before even carrying out their initial survey. If this is less than 'D' then owner will have to commit to improvements before PV survey. If 'D' or better then carry on as now. Owner has to stump up the initial £50 or so cost of an EPC before they have their PV survey (which could tell them that their house is not suitable for PV in any case). Quoting will be for a range of prices/ROIs which will depend on work being done within 2 months or not.

b - installer performs (or arranges) EPC as part of initial survey and swallows the cost. If it is worse than 'D' then arranges improvements at owners cost. Then installs PV - all for an inclusive price.

I'm sure there are many other options too in between these extreme approaches, but there will be potential delays at each step of the process unless you get a system in place that runs like clockwork. Companies that do this will be OK, others will be more likely to fail.

 

[finchy]

Cheers for that Ted M ! This all sounds very complicated and I'm sure REAL and MCS would add some additional hurdle !

How can a hard working honest pv company survive, we would scare the customers off before they get started. It all plays very well into the double Glazing crocks hands ! Solar pv will be swallowed up into bigg energy improvement firms what can offer (will push) a complete service. Eg get your home from a E to an A and save xx per year plus generate your own power!

 

[SRE]

This just seems to be getting more complicated the more you look at it. If it's complicated for us it's got to be a big turn off for all but the most determined customers ....

 

[jupestar]

yeah thats what worries me, can always find a way to make it work.... but i think the complication and faff factor will put potential clients of doing anything....

 

[saint]

Yes, all this additional faff for the customer for maybe £400 in tariff.

It has sometimes bee hard enough for customers to commit to changing the look of their home for £1500 in tariff.

 

[SolarCity]

It has sometimes bee hard enough for customers to commit to changing the look of their home for £1500 in tariff.

Absolutely. This is another aspect which has no doubt been ignored by DECC.

I wonder what will happen if, in 6 months time, the uptake is so small that the targets look clearly unreachable. Will they change the targets or the tariffs?

 

[TedM]

Another few thoughts.

- EPCs are valid for ten years from date of issue (rumours that this will be cut)
- EPCs became mandatory in about 2007 (different times depending on no. of bedrooms)
- anyone who has bought their house (new or secondhand) since 2007 should have a valid EPC already from that
- talk to DEAs in your area and offer them a joint deal. You should be able to negotiate a discount on their price if you can offer them a certain amount of work
- make sure you work with a DEA you feel you can trust

 

[solarsavings]

And admit they got it wrong? no chance.

 

[Markc]

I was thinking the same. Where did you get this info from mark.

Nothing more than an Email doing the rounds.

 

[JulianC]

Probably a daft question but does anyone know for certain that the addition of a PV system to a property affects the energy performance rating? I always assumed that the rating was based on energy efficiency, regardless of where the energy comes from.

 

[Earthstore]

I have just read that (although conflicting) adding a PV system does add points to the EPC, one stated that run through the software adding a 4KW system to a south facing roof took it from 65 points to 91 points.
So maybe all is not lost after all??

 

[powervan]

Positive thinking lads (i like it) but i think its doomed!! we could always set up another forum!! ex pv installers !! talk about the good old days