Announcement "later today!"

[Markc]

I see 2012 being a challenging year for PV. With so much to consider it is difficult to see if it is worth continuing with it.

Weighing up the pros and cons regarding the EPC. Is it worth spending more money on training to become qualified to do a EPC? After all it can be done for around £50 per property. If it be ones apparent in the coming months the PV industry has dried up I wouldn't be surprised if the government changes things again. So why spend the money?

If the EPC has to be conducted by a third party penny to a pound the nationals will come up with a scam to get round that. Self employed sales teams who happen to have the EPC qualification and give a D no matter what!

Will the potential client want to pay for this first? If not is it worth surveying? Why survey a property that's going to take several thousand to achieve a D?

I can see the next sales thing being FREE EPC assessments so again playing into the hands of the larger company.

And then we look at the possible rates from July onwards. Pushing hard to lower the material costs or pushing harder on cutting margins for the installer? The larger company has more movement due to buying power but it is the smaller company thats going to be squezed harder and its use in those small companies who are the backbone of Britain after all.

The possible changes to the FIT rate every six months aids further to nutter confusion. Depending on how much has been installed in previous months if I have this correct. Some times I have had clients take over 12 months to confirm they want an installation. This would mean even more paperwork in the form of requotes and returns.

Isnt this a great industry to be in!

 

[JulianC]

I won't be training myself up to provide EPCs. The country is awash with DEAs who can provide them for around 40-50 quid a pop, so I'm hoping to hook up with a local outfit and come to some mutually beneficial arrangement. Since the EPC stays with the property I would expect the householder to pay for it. If they are serious about PV then 40 quid shouldn't break the bank and I'd be happy to refund it if they subsequently placed the order with us. Likewise, if something simple like a top up on loft insulation was required to boost the rating, I'd do it no probs. I would think that a few initial questions to the householder would give you some idea whether or not a property is somewhere around the D rating mark, or way off, and therefore whether or not it was worth pursuing. This assumes of course that there are any customers left after March 31st. Of far greater concern to me at the moment is the potential for rubbish FIT rates from July. Installation prices can only go so low before something has to give. I'd rather it wasn't my wage. Perhaps not paying REAL for the pleasure of being treated like naughty school kids would be a start.

Still, there's always that totally ill-conceived, unworkable pile of dog mess that is the Green Deal to look forward too. We'll be clamouring for the 'great' days of December 2011 when that further display of DECC numbskullery kicks off.

 

[moggy1968]

my understanding is it has to be a D before the PV is fitted.

 

[TedM]

DECC have said that it has to be a 'D' at the point the owner applies for a FiTs contract (and sends off the EPC cert with their application for checking). So the PV can itself be included in the rating to get a 'D'.

My SAP software tells me that a 4kW PV adds about 10 points to a rating, but this does depend on other things like floor area of the house.

EPC rating bands are:
A over 92
B 81 - 91
C 69 - 80
D 55 - 68
E 39 - 54
F 21 - 38
G 1 - 20

So a house needs to score 55 or more to be a 'D'.

 

[finchy]

I just found my HIP report, from back in 2008 when I thought of selling my house. An interesting point is that I stumped up 300 quid for this report which at the time had to happen before you could Market the property. The funniest thing is I didn't move and 4 years on still here, right waste of money!!!

My house is an old Victorian house built in c1870, I refurbed it back in 2005, All I have done in terms of energy efficiency is install new double glaze windows, new boiler and insulation in the loft. They rated my house D 68 points, I have no cavity wall insulation or energy efficient lighting.

Therefore unless you live in a barn surely everyone would be D, I think we are worrying about nothing. Most people have double glaze windows and nowadays have low energy light bulbs!

My concern getting is a DEA you can trust, and not pass your customers details to someone else. I think I would create a epc company and use this as my independent assessor.

 

[SRE]

Bet you've got natural gas though ... oil blows the figures out of the water.

 

[Eco Deal]

I have just read that (although conflicting) adding a PV system does add points to the EPC, one stated that run through the software adding a 4KW system to a south facing roof took it from 65 points to 91 points.
So maybe all is not lost after all??

it adds around three points I got software thats B***OCKS

 

[Eco Deal]

A good way to top up points & easy !!! energy saving bulbs so add them to your package if not installed

also heating controls ie stats and programmers boost pointss up .. things in our field

you can get wirless programmers for 100 quid easy to install...

 

[finchy]

Yeah I've got gas, but I'm sure the guys with oil would want to change that anyway !

To be honest as I said months ago before all this EPC, we talk about energy efficiency on our survey so our customers would benefit from solar pv. Such as a customer with 100watt lamps in the kitchen we replaced them as part of the install !

 

[SRE]

Bit difficult to change to natural gas when there isn't any I take it you're not a rural installer?

About 3/4 of the jobs we do are in rural locations where natural gas is at least half a mile away, their only choice is to change to a biomass boiler which from what I can see is costing well in excess of 10k and for those getting older they don't always want the hassle or have the space to store the fuel.

Good to know that a solid wall property in a town with gas should be ok.

 

[Markc]

Yeah I've got gas, but I'm sure the guys with oil would want to change that anyway !

You don't know Norfolk! But yes with the opportunity I would like to have gas. I'd lose a ruddy great tank out of my garden and not have to pay for all our fuel in one lump sum a year. And that's now over hundreds!

I'm only 5 miles outside the centre of Norwich and I can't get gas. It was only brought into the village five years ago for a new development. It will cost us an average of £1500 per property in my street to have it put on and that's only if we all go for it! And before you add in the cost of a new boiler and fitting, removal on unused oil and tank. Then add in the live span on a gas boiler over an oil one the numbers dont add up. Hardly an investment. If I travel 15 miles west then I can discover gas again. 10 mile south and don't even look north towards the coast. That's a lot of oil boilers!

Why is oil considered as none efficient. Most heating engineers, sorry plumbers, I talk to or deal with say oil is more efficient over the long term. In the boiler scrapage scheme the other year (don't get me started on that!) most oil boilers didn't qualify for replacement under the scheme due to it being to efficant.

 

[Mark Sadler]

Disgraceful that Norfolk does not have gas, given that it borders the North Sea.

 

[Markc]

Disgraceful that Norfolk does not have gas, given that it borders the North Sea.

And the biggest onshore gas terminal in the Uk at Bacton!

Norfolk does have gas it's not a new technology! We even have running water and sometimes it's even hot! Electrictricity and all mod cons! Just where gas isn't oil is and it's surprising how many places only have gas. Especially when working in villages.

 

[powervan]

lol but think of the benifffffffitttts!!!!! no hills so the landi can get up to 60MPH ))

 

[SRE]

Why is oil considered as none efficient.

You get less kwh from oil than natural gas making the carbon emissions greater.