Another fine mess??????

[Octopus]

A couple of months back one of my neighbours let me know that they were having a new kitchen fitted in their rental property. The complete works were to be undertaken by a very well known major DIY chain. They apologised for not getting me involved (which was very nice of them) but the DIY chain "have their own people".

So here we are 5 weeks after the works are complete. In the kitchen the electrics required modification to incorporate some new sockets.

My neighbour has been chasing said DIY chain for the certificate and Part P notification and nothing has been forthcoming. An exchange of email has taken place and the outcome, so far, is that the kitchen installer did all the work on the kitchen, including the electrics, but he's not registered, nor could he test, nor could he notify. The fitter is not an employee of the DIY chain

So they've asked me to get involved!!!!!!!!

I'm going to speak to the installer tomorrow to get his side of the story.

I've taken a quick look at the new kitchen and the "old style" cooker point has been covered over and I'm guessing that the new sockets were run as a radial off this point. The "old point" is completely hidden by a wall cupboard so its anyones guess how the "extension" to the cable was made.

My thoughts are:

Who can now notify this? (I'm happy to do an EICR on the specific changed circuits)
What tactic should my neighbour take with the DIY chain?
Who's responsibility is it to talk to LABC? The DIY chain, the installer, my neighbour?

My thinks this is going to be protracted as my neighbour knows about Part P etc PLUS his letting agent is asking for the certificates!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I mean a lot of the other bodies allow testing and certing a job carried out by third party as long as they were instructing the job but NIC are cracking down on this practice where other bodies turn a blind eye to it.

yes but under part p rules....the person who ultimately signs off the work and notifies has to be present at both the design and install stages of the works....or what you would have is a few guys being part p registered ....then going round loads of installers (including kitchen fitters)..lol....like some sort of QS for hire...lol...

 

[Octopus]

I mean a lot of the other bodies allow testing and certing a job carried out by third party as long as they were instructing the job but NIC are cracking down on this practice where other bodies turn a blind eye to it.

NIC cracking down on it, don't make me laugh.

In THIS case all the sparky is doing is turning up to test. How can he possibly sign off the design? Especially as the kitchen installer probably won't tell him that he's used a standard JB and sealed it in behind a new plasterboard panel, behind a cupboard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

NIC cracking down on it, don't make me laugh.

In THIS case all the sparky is doing is turning up to test. How can he possibly sign off the design? Especially as the kitchen installer probably won't tell him that he's used a standard JB and sealed it in behind a new plasterboard panel, behind a cupboard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW!!....you mean he actually used a joint box...lol.....

 

[needasparks]

Like most of these jobs, if the cert is not in the pile ready for inspection it would not be pulled would it. It just needs to be brought to there attention and then it can be looked for. This is the practice that is clamping down as the nic now pair up notifications with certs to check if both exist. with what you have said on this job I would have thought the cert would have gone missing, would be a good way of not letting this happen, especially as faults are listed to them as then they know what to look for.
I should add, I would have thought the installer is only a DI by them faults you listed so when a complaint is raised it would be with a higher inspector to check out as DI have different inspectors to fully aproved members who are checked in more depth.

 

[Octopus]

For clarity::

The kitchen fitter is NOT a sparky BUT he did the first and second fix

The NICEIC registered electrician simply comes along to test and certificate at the end.

 

[needasparks]

I understand what you are saying but the sparks is not going to say that is he ? so if it can be proved that this happend, he's had it.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

For clarity::

The kitchen fitter is NOT a sparky BUT he did the first and second fix

The NICEIC registered electrician simply comes along to test and certificate at the end.

hmm...test and certificate....not inspect for himself then.....a clear neglect on his part....

 

[supasparxs]

I have a couple of questions
1) If the NIC spark is signing off the work and notifying for the works, why hasn't the customer got the paperwork?

2) If there are faults that the NIC spark has missed, why doesn't the customer call the NIC in to snag the works?

 

[needasparks]

In all disputes the NIC with refer you to sort with installer and no solution only then will they step in. With another sparks report they have no choice but to investigate. I was asked to do this same thing on someones install which they where hung out to dry on.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I have a couple of questions
1) If the NIC spark is signing off the work and notifying for the works, why hasn't the customer got the paperwork?

2) If there are faults that the NIC spark has missed, why doesn't the customer call the NIC in to snag the works?

snagg the works??....snagg him more like for missing em.....or am i missing something?..........

 

[Octopus]

I understand what you are saying but the sparks is not going to say that is he ? so if it can be proved that this happend, he's had it.

I tool some photo's while I was doing some work a few months back and part way through the kitchen install. Pictures "speak" thousands of words.

 

[Octopus]

UPDATE.

My neighbour finally got the (NICEIC) certificates and we went in to have a look before the new tennents move in.

Circuit 1 modification

MWC confirming 2G & 1G sockets added to what was the cooker circuit, no comment about changing the MCB to the new 32A RCBO, nor the 2.5mm cable added to the "end" of the old 7/029 cable.

Me thinks the MWC should state that the MCB has been changed to the RCBO
Why has he fitted a 32A breaker to a radial where the last 3-4 meters are 2.5mm cable?
No comment about the JB concealed behind new cupboard
(No comment on the fact that the kitchen fitter did all the install work.)

Circuit 2

Spur off existing 2G socket

RCD test times for 1x and 5x almost identical - which looks unusual.


Neighbour not happy and about to pen a letter to the big shed who they ordered the new kitchen off

 

[drew35]

I would remind the neighbour that you weren't involved from the start and wish to stay that way! But I would then ring the kitchen company and advise them from this point on they should use a qualified electrician (You), and not this other muppet.