Any good resources/videos for 3 phase or industrial stuff?

[Electrics]

I've been watching Residual Current on youtube (great vids and great bloke btw) and really love watching the more industrial/commercial side of things.

Are there any resources that teach how 3 phase works? Even college syllabuses seem to be very light on 3 phase stuff.

How do people learn this stuff if they're not working with it daily at work?

Thanks in advance.

 

[telectrix]

try Big Clive's youtube videos.

 

[Electrics]

try Big Clive's youtube videos.

Never heard of him but will give them a go. Thanks mate.

 

[ElectroChem]

If you want some laughs on the high-power side of the trade, try Photonic Induction on youtube. He's just recently come back from a few years break, heaps of fun to watch him play around with (and more often than not destroy) some gear.

 

[Lister1987]

GSH Electrical and Joe Robinson training on YouTube will have 3 phase stuff in, thr latter dealing with prominently thr electrical science behind it.

John Ward also does some theory stuff. Thr Engineering Mindset also good with this.

.what exactly is it you're after? You mention Mikey's channel, that's pretty much 3 phase work as you'd likely see it which leads me to think is it the theory you're after?

 

[Electrics]

GSH Electrical and Joe Robinson training on YouTube will have 3 phase stuff in, thr latter dealing with prominently thr electrical science behind it.

John Ward also does some theory stuff. Thr Engineering Mindset also good with this.

.what exactly is it you're after? You mention Mikey's channel, that's pretty much 3 phase work as you'd likely see it which leads me to think is it the theory you're after?

Mostly just to see the practicality behind how they work differently to single phase in terms of how they're wired up etc. Like do you take all 3 phases to each outlet or can you split them? If there a certain way of wiring them up eg i've seen some L1 L2 L3 but then on the other side L3 L2 L1 in reverse order. Just something to get familiar with the boards and how they are different from single phase. I can work out single phase stuff quite easily by looking at it but 3 phase stuff confuses me a bit as there always seems to be extra parts, bigger stuff, converters and isolators and all sorts of funky stuff.

Not only that but i've read through the level 3 books (both EAL and C&G) and they don't really touch on 3 phase much. How do people learn about it if they're never taught it? Is it very much a thing where you have to have a job doing it to be in the know or is there some sort of extra training that helps you figure all this stuff out?

Same with industrial. If you work on house bashing during an apprenticeship for 3 years and do the Level 3 you're not going to be able to suss out an industrial supply even with 10 years experience unless you're actually employed by a firm who does that sort of stuff. So how do you learn without the job? Is there a way?

 

[ElectroChem]

Mostly just to see the practicality behind how they work differently to single phase in terms of how they're wired up etc. Like do you take all 3 phases to each outlet or can you split them? If there a certain way of wiring them up eg i've seen some L1 L2 L3 but then on the other side L3 L2 L1 in reverse order. Just something to get familiar with the boards and how they are different from single phase. I can work out single phase stuff quite easily by looking at it but 3 phase stuff confuses me a bit as there always seems to be extra parts, bigger stuff, converters and isolators and all sorts of funky stuff.

Not only that but i've read through the level 3 books (both EAL and C&G) and they don't really touch on 3 phase much. How do people learn about it if they're never taught it? Is it very much a thing where you have to have a job doing it to be in the know or is there some sort of extra training that helps you figure all this stuff out?

Same with industrial. If you work on house bashing during an apprenticeship for 3 years and do the Level 3 you're not going to be able to suss out an industrial supply even with 10 years experience unless you're actually employed by a firm who does that sort of stuff. So how do you learn without the job? Is there a way?

Quite a bit to cover here, but I'll do my best.
Background: I'm an industrial trained electrician coming up on 8 years in the trade. In Australia we have to do a full 4-year apprenticeship to be trade qualified, so some aspects of my training will be quite different to the UK.

Like do you take all 3 phases to each outlet or can you split them?
That depends on the type of outlet. Installations with 3-phase power still have a neutral available, so for single-phase outlets you would run a circuit from the board that picked up one of the active phases plus the neutral.
3-phase outlets will use all three actives, sometimes without the neutral and sometimes with, depending on the type of load being supplied.

3 phase stuff confuses me a bit as there always seems to be extra parts, bigger stuff, converters and isolators and all sorts of funky stuff.
At its core 3-phase uses all the same control gear as single, just three times
The nature of things is that if a system needs 3-phase power, it's more likely to be big and complicated to begin with. We use all the extra funky stuff to do interesting things with electrickery.

How do people learn about it if they're never taught it? Is it very much a thing where you have to have a job doing it to be in the know...
This is the crux of the issue when trying to 'move up' in the trade. Industrial sparkies love to lay s*** on "house bashers" because part of our ego is that we work with the more complex gear and systems.
If you don't learn it as part of your training, it can be really hard to get a break into this side of the business, and no amount of book learning can match live training.
If you're genuinely interested in getting some experience and learning that side of things, my best suggestion would be to find some of the guys on here or a local business that works industrial and ask to help out. I'd certainly be more than happy to ramble on to a TA while we're doing a cable pull, and more than once I've taken time at the end of a day to run an apprentice or helper through the line we've been working on and explain things.

 

[Electrics]

Quite a bit to cover here, but I'll do my best.
Background: I'm an industrial trained electrician coming up on 8 years in the trade. In Australia we have to do a full 4-year apprenticeship to be trade qualified, so some aspects of my training will be quite different to the UK.

Like do you take all 3 phases to each outlet or can you split them?
That depends on the type of outlet. Installations with 3-phase power still have a neutral available, so for single-phase outlets you would run a circuit from the board that picked up one of the active phases plus the neutral.
3-phase outlets will use all three actives, sometimes without the neutral and sometimes with, depending on the type of load being supplied.

3 phase stuff confuses me a bit as there always seems to be extra parts, bigger stuff, converters and isolators and all sorts of funky stuff.
At its core 3-phase uses all the same control gear as single, just three times
The nature of things is that if a system needs 3-phase power, it's more likely to be big and complicated to begin with. We use all the extra funky stuff to do interesting things with electrickery.

How do people learn about it if they're never taught it? Is it very much a thing where you have to have a job doing it to be in the know...
This is the crux of the issue when trying to 'move up' in the trade. Industrial sparkies love to lay s*** on "house bashers" because part of our ego is that we work with the more complex gear and systems.
If you don't learn it as part of your training, it can be really hard to get a break into this side of the business, and no amount of book learning can match live training.
If you're genuinely interested in getting some experience and learning that side of things, my best suggestion would be to find some of the guys on here or a local business that works industrial and ask to help out. I'd certainly be more than happy to ramble on to a TA while we're doing a cable pull, and more than once I've taken time at the end of a day to run an apprentice or helper through the line we've been working on and explain things.

Wow thanks for taking the time to write this.

I guess the real question is - do you need the job doing these sorts of fits to know what you have written above or is there a resource/resources that at least teach you the basics of it? I find it weird that there doesn't seem to be any real course or anything that teaches you this side of the game because there's no way you can go from 3 bed terrace rewires to just jumping straight into industrial panels.

 

[Lister1987]

Wow thanks for taking the time to write this.

I guess the real question is - do you need the job doing these sorts of fits to know what you have written above or is there a resource/resources that at least teach you the basics of it? I find it weird that there doesn't seem to be any real course or anything that teaches you this side of the game because there's no way you can go from 3 bed terrace rewires to just jumping straight into industrial panels.

I disagree, if your understanding of the 3 phase fundamentals is sound then there is no reason you can't make the switch from domestic.

Your best bet is to go over the theory until it can be recalled without thinking, get hold of technical data from manufacturers and study it, get an understanding of the differences in switchgear; different BS standards compared to domestic.

A lot of the ways of working is different; RAMS for everything, probably one for wiping your arse too, once you've got the permit to do it - Safety is strict and stringently controlled so be sure to understand the hierarchy of control and where it applies and how.

If you're capable you could make yourself a 3 phase rig to test on, while there is no substitute for real world experience but fundamentaly it's just bigger switchgear, larger voltages and amperage and containment EVERYWHERE so make sure your containment skills are honed.

Oh and Arc Flash awareness is a top priority, that ---- is dangerous in commercial and industrial, moreso than domestic.

 

[Electrics]

I disagree, if your understanding of the 3 phase fundamentals is sound then there is no reason you can't make the switch from domestic.

Your best bet is to go over the theory until it can be recalled without thinking

Yeah i agree with that but where do you get to learn those fundamentals? The Level 3 books don't really have much in from what i can tell and certainly no board set ups with anything labelled. Do you know of any books or resources?

 

[Lister1987]

Yeah i agree with that but where do you get to learn those fundamentals? The Level 3 books don't really have much in from what i can tell and certainly no board set ups with anything labelled. Do you know of any books or resources?

The city and guilds books cover the theory behind 3 phase (star Delta etc), I guess the real question should be; what do you see as holes in your knowledge preventing you from grasping 3 phase (Practical experience aside)?

Board setups are pretty much similar to domestic just in a different orientation, neutral bars, earth bars, a main switch, busbars tend to run down thr center and are fixed, unlike most 1phaae domestic boards.

Manuals from manufacturers will help with diagrams etc

 

[Petej999]

Wow thanks for taking the time to write this.

I guess the real question is - do you need the job doing these sorts of fits to know what you have written above or is there a resource/resources that at least teach you the basics of it? I find it weird that there doesn't seem to be any real course or anything that teaches you this side of the game because there's no way you can go from 3 bed terrace rewires to just jumping straight into industrial panels.

The city and guilds books cover the theory behind 3 phase (star Delta etc), I guess the real question should be; what do you see as holes in your knowledge preventing you from grasping 3 phase (Practical experience aside)?

Board setups are pretty much similar to domestic just in a different orientation, neutral bars, earth bars, a main switch, busbars tend to run down thr center and are fixed, unlike most 1phaae domestic boards.

Manuals from manufacturers will help with diagrams etc

From reading this thread it would see m that transitioning fro Dom to IND all you need to do is watch a few Youtube Vids? ludicrous

 

[Electrics]

From reading this thread it would see m that transitioning fro Dom to IND all you need to do is watch a few Youtube Vids? ludicrous

Personally i agree it doesn't seem like most domestic installers, fully qualified or not, could just go jump on an industrial set up and know what they were doing.

So how would you personally gather the knowledge needed to know what you're doing industrial/commercial wise without a job doing it? Is there a training body? A course? A good book? I'm looking for anything here no matter how small

 

[Electrics]

The city and guilds books cover the theory behind 3 phase (star Delta etc), I guess the real question should be; what do you see as holes in your knowledge preventing you from grasping 3 phase (Practical experience aside)?

Board setups are pretty much similar to domestic just in a different orientation, neutral bars, earth bars, a main switch, busbars tend to run down thr center and are fixed, unlike most 1phaae domestic boards.

Manuals from manufacturers will help with diagrams etc

Ok thanks i'll check some manuals out.

 

[Petej999]

Personally i agree it doesn't seem like most domestic installers, fully qualified or not, could just go jump on an industrial set up and know what they were doing.

So how would you personally gather the knowledge needed to know what you're doing industrial/commercial wise without a job doing it? Is there a training body? A course? A good book? I'm looking for anything here no matter how small

Do a proper apprenticeship mate nothing like it for learning the ropes.

 

[Electrics]

Do a proper apprenticeship mate nothing like it for learning the ropes.

Would give my left nut to but i'm 34 mate, nobody will touch me.

18 years in the building trade renovating houses top to bottom including electrical work, own tools, insurance, van, clean licence, 5 year CSCS card, own PPE, drive and motivation to succeed. But for some reason i get rejected for every apprenticeship i apply for and they give it to 16 year olds who stand on their phone watching TikTok all day and don't really care about electrics.

What can you do!

With me having over 5 years experience of wiring stuff up (just the basics, mind) i could technically do the 'experienced worker route' but i want to have that proper underpinning knowledge so if no apprenticeship turns up i'm gonna stick with the current plan of going to college to do the level 2 and 3 EAL so i can hopefully get work as an 'improver' or 'mate' to build up a portfolio and learn off some more experienced guys.

I mean i know how running cables, MCB's, RCD's, RCBO's, cable sizing, outside lights, downlights, cookers/hobs/bonding etc all works in principal and i can carry it out safely but i'm not confident enough because i've not been shown the 'proper' way to do it all. I get the same result but the process is probably different - anyone watching me would probably go 'why you doing it like that?!'.

 

[nicebutdim]

Would give my left nut to but i'm 34 mate, nobody will touch me.

18 years in the building trade renovating houses top to bottom including electrical work, own tools, insurance, van, clean licence, 5 year CSCS card, own PPE, drive and motivation to succeed. But for some reason i get rejected for every apprenticeship i apply for and they give it to 16 year olds who stand on their phone watching TikTok all day and don't really care about electrics.

What can you do!

With me having over 5 years experience of wiring stuff up (just the basics, mind) i could technically do the 'experienced worker route' but i want to have that proper underpinning knowledge so if no apprenticeship turns up i'm gonna stick with the current plan of going to college to do the level 2 and 3 EAL so i can hopefully get work as an 'improver' or 'mate' to build up a portfolio and learn off some more experienced guys.

Knock on doors - it's soul destroying, but you never know what might turn up if you don't ask.

I'm mid 40s (can't remember exactly) and struggled to get on a college course for 3 years as training opportunities are less numerous over here, but will finally be starting college next month on a full apprenticeship.

Once the possibility of that college place was on the cards I started looking for work and fully expected to spend the rest of my days working on domestic installations and figuring out the questions you're asking.

Turned out that one of those doors I knocked on was the right door and in the brief time since starting it has been a mix of commercial and industrial. While I might have felt at home in houses, the first week was daunting and I've felt like a 16yo in a adult's body, but I guess that's par for the course. There's a huge hill to climb and I could end up booted out on my backside, but right now I'm feeling exceptionally lucky to have found work with decent people in a decent firm - the onus is now on me to work hard and prove my worth, while studying and hopefully getting decent results from those endeavours.

There is work out there - good and bad. While some companies will only take on apprentices/trainees at a young age, others will have a different view for various reasons. No idea why this particular company decided to take a chance and give me a start, but I can't tell you how grateful I am that they did. Get out there and start asking. Swallow any pride you might have and be prepared for knockbacks. One point I will make is that I didn't asked for anything beyond the opportunity to start working in the industry, but feel I have been treated very fairly in return.

 

[rapparee]

If you're capable you could make yourself a 3 phase rig to test on, while there is no substitute for real world experience but fundamentaly it's just bigger switchgear, larger voltages and amperage and containment

A higher voltage will actually mean a lower amperage.

The big advantage of there phase is the simplicity of using 3 phase motors as opposed to single phase motors with start run capacitors etc

 

[Electrics]

Knock on doors - it's soul destroying, but you never know what might turn up if you don't ask.

I'm mid 40s (can't remember exactly) and struggled to get on a college course for 3 years as training opportunities are less numerous over here, but will finally be starting college next month on a full apprenticeship.

Once the possibility of that college place was on the cards I started looking for work and fully expected to spend the rest of my days working on domestic installations and figuring out the questions you're asking.

Turned out that one of those doors I knocked on was the right door and in the brief time since starting it has been a mix of commercial and industrial. While I might have felt at home in houses, the first week was daunting and I've felt like a 16yo in a adult's body, but I guess that's par for the course. There's a huge hill to climb and I could end up booted out on my backside, but right now I'm feeling exceptionally lucky to have found work with decent people in a decent firm - the onus is now on me to work hard and prove my worth, while studying and hopefully getting decent results from those endeavours.

There is work out there - good and bad. While some companies will only take on apprentices/trainees at a young age, others will have a different view for various reasons. No idea why this particular company decided to take a chance and give me a start, but I can't tell you how grateful I am that they did. Get out there and start asking. Swallow any pride you might have and be prepared for knockbacks. One point I will make is that I didn't asked for anything beyond the opportunity to start working in the industry, but feel I have been treated very fairly in return.

Wow amazing story, happy for you mate. Once my college place is confirmed next Tuesday i've got some plans to get out there and start really plotting a course to see if i can get work even if just for the three days i'm not at college.

If anyone in the North East (Peterlee, Durham, Sunderland, Hartlepool, Newcastle area) is watching and wants to give an older motivated learner who is already enrolled at college a shot, please feel free to DM me ?

 

[Lister1987]

A higher voltage will actually mean a lower amperage.

The big advantage of there phase is the simplicity of using 3 phase motors as opposed to single phase motors with start run capacitors etc

Probably didn't wordit right, meant to put across that generally loads are heavier amperage than what you'd find in domestic, larger MCBs and all that jazz. My bad.

 

[Lister1987]

From reading this thread it would see m that transitioning fro Dom to IND all you need to do is watch a few Youtube Vids? ludicrous

Not what I'm advocating at all Pete, I do endeavour to explain myself in that posts and while there is no substitute for hands on, you can get an idea of the sort of work watching videos, you won't learn the skills and theory; that's a different thing altogether.